Powder Brand Differences

[1100 Remington Man]

What would be the shelf life of Pyrodex when stored in a stable temp 68 F in my basement humidity 50% ?

 

[Kansas Jake]

I shoot BP in my flintlocks, but often use Pyrodex in my percussion rifles and cap and ball revolvers. I don't buy Pyrodex any more as I have a good supply of BP and can get more if needed. I have picked up Pyrodex several times as part of a deal for black powder stuff. If I have it, I'll shoot it. It seems to perform similarly to BP in percussion arms and being a tight wad, I'll shoot it. If I couldn't get BP easily, I'd use it. As others have said, be sure to promptly clean firearms well after using it, but that is true with BP also.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Black powder is the easiest stuff to light, and it burns fast. In fact, it is even used in modern artillery shells as a sort of large secondary primer. The initial primer is a standard 50 cal cap which is set in a 38 special sized case, which is then filled with real BP and covered with something like wax or masking tape. That case is then set in to the main artillery shell, and then filled with the main powder charge.

 

[Eterry]

What would be the shelf life of Pyrodex when stored in a stable temp 68 F in my basement humidity 50% ?

About 20 years ago a store closed and marked everything down. I bought a lb of pyrodex RS half price, then stored it in my garage.
About 7 years ago I decided to try it. 60grs sounded like a cap gun. I upped it to 80grs, still sounded weak. No problems igniting with musket caps.
I've always used Dupont/Goex, was only game in town for years.
A friends bought me 5lbs bulk Goex fffg for $7 per lb from the Nationals in 2011, I'm still using it.

 

[hanshi]

Many years ago a friend got rid of his MLs and gave me 3 bottles of Pyrodex in three different grades. They'd already been opened. I tried it in a revolver and was less than impressed and haven't tried it since. While I still have the Pyrodex and store it in a good, dry place, I don't really have a use for it and am hesitant to try it in my two caplocks.

 

[rodwha]

My father gave me 3 bottles of various Pyrodex with two opened. The price tag listed them as $9.99 so it's certainly got some age on it. He kept it in his workshop that only has A/C going when he goes in there. It worked just fine. He's in Oklahoma.

However I don't care for the sticky fouling it leaves and used most of it to break in my rifle barrel.

 

[Zonie]

Pyrodex what is everyone's thoughts on it and does it shoot as fast as Black powder weight.
...
I use 90 grains by volume not weight in my .54 in my Rengade and patched round ball and I think recoil is modest.
I don't have a chonograph so I don't know what kind of speed I am getting in FPS but I see no reason to go to a lighter powder charge.

If you want to shoot a 90 grain powder load under a round ball, that's fine but if you are hunting and shooting at ranges of 50 yards or more the 90 grain powder load won't give you much more velocity than a smaller load.

Round balls not only lose their velocity rapidly but the faster they are initially going, the faster they lose velocity.

In the graph below you can see this.

The velocity starts on the left showing the muzzle velocity. Each dot to the right represents a distance of 20 yards.
The dot at the extreme right represent a distance of 120 yards.*

Notice that although the 100 grain load started off much faster than the 80 grain load, by the time it reaches 100 yards it is traveling just slightly faster.
The same can be said of the 90 grain load you are using.

As for the shelf life of Pyrodex, as you can see, there are different opinions about it.

I lean towards the idea that after a few years, a noticeable difference in power will be seen.
Black powder on the other hand doesn't lose any power over 100 years as long as it doesn't get wet.

*Data from Lymans BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL, 2nd ed.

 

[rodwha]

Certainly can't go wrong with actual black powder for sure, which is maybe 75% of my powder purchases.

The other portion has been Triple 7. It was my first powder (other than the Pyrodex) and I still like it for some reason. And it's been said by the majority that time is not on its side once opened. I can't say I've noticed this but I also shot a lot so a pound didn't sit opened for more than a few months at best. Someone mentioned that maybe placing silica gel packs in the bottle might help. I get plenty of those in the stuff I buy so why not? Can't say it works but I don't see how it can hurt either.

 

[Rifleman1776]

When I first started in this game, many-many years ago, one of my mentors, Don Davis, told me "a roundball has about the ballistic equivalent of a brick". Certainly an exaggeration but a good lesson that we are using an ancient technology and trying to achieve modern results. Very tricky to do. If it were easy there would be no need for a forum like this one.

 

[mooman76]

I have used Pyrodex for years. Often it was not stored under ideal conditions and I still have no problems with it, some over 20 years old. It still shoots the same as far as I can tell. I am switching to the real stuff (which I have)but being the cheap SOB I am, I can't just throw it out.

 

[Kansas Jake]

:metoo:

 

[Eterry]

Great info there Jim, if someone is willing to look at it. I love to study ballistics, crunch #s, and it still stuns me how the prb sheds approx 66% of its energy in the first 100 yards. Yet you see guys talking of prepared to shoot large game at over 225 yards. Even if you can connect at that range...and that's a LOT of holdover, the remaining energy is miniscule. I wonder what kind of penetration a prb would have at that range?

I'd like to develop a load approximating the velocity one would get at 200+ yards and see how it performs in a test medium...like wet newspaper.
:hmm:

 

[rodwha]

Check out the results of the 1860 Army with a ball traveling fairly slow yet still penetrates the ballistics gel and human bone.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQnVfyhVJ-Y

 

[M. De Land]

Yes, a patch round ball slows down fast from it's muzzle velocity but to gain some prospective lets look at a say 230 grain .54 cal ball traveling at 1800 fps at the muzzle.
.66 x 1800 = 1188 fps which is on par, at 100 yards, with a factory 44 mag pistol from a 4 inch barrel at the muzzle, energy wise.
What is even impressive to me is the trajectory curve of a ball at 200 yards. It's coming down hill like a meteor when viewed through a spotting scope!

 

[Eterry]

Yes, a patch round ball slows down fast from it's muzzle velocity but to gain some prospective lets look at a say 230 grain .54 cal ball traveling at 1800 fps at the muzzle.
.66 x 1800 = 1188 fps which is on par, at 100 yards, with a factory 44 mag pistol from a 4 inch barrel at the muzzle, energy wise.
What is even impressive to me is the trajectory curve of a ball at 200 yards. It's coming down hill like a meteor when viewed through a spotting scope!

M.D., first off, 1800fps requires 110grs of fffg, which is SCREAMING...but your velocity is close to what the Lyman handbook shows. The energy at 200 yards is approx. 313 ft/lbs with a velocity of approx. 780 fps.

At that shoulder crushing speed the trajectory given is on at 50yds, -37" at 200yds. Over three feet.

A reasonable speed of 1600fps gives you right at 46" of drop with a 50yd zero. A tad shy of four feet.

For me, I'll take 1600fps, on at 75yds, 3" low at 100.

 

[Eterry]

Rodwha, very interesting Video, but it shows me what the Govt's been saying for 20 years....Speed Kills!!

 

[Herb]

I did a comparison of Goex, Swiss and Olde Eynsford recently. See the Hunting Journal, "A Utah Pronghorn Hunt".