Powder Coated R.E.A.L Bullets

[Martin B.]

I have been looking for some information on coating R.E.A.L bullets for the .45 flintlock I build last winter. I know that many use bore butter, Alox and similar lubricants. I cast bullets for my other guns and have done a fair amount of powder coating and shooting these bullets without getting any leading. So my thought was if I could do this also with muzzleloader conicals like R.E.A.L bullets. Yesterday, I powdercoated a hand full of bullets and shot 6 today. The load was 70 grain Goex. I had no trouble inserting the bullets into the barrel (not coned) and pushing them down on the load. I did not clean in between the shots and it was not getting harder getting them in as I progressed shooting. The cleaning was easier than the bore butter and Alox. After getting clean patches with water, I use normally dry patches. They came out clean quickly. Before, when using bore butter or Alox, I would get some black stuff on them. Now, this is not the case anymore. When putting a bore light into the bore it was clean and shiny. No leading was detected. I know, this is not the most traditional approach, but it seems that it could benefit some. When powder coating, I normally use the bake and shake method and use cheap red powder from HF.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I would have expected you to have some trouble getting the projectile down the bore, but the proof is in the pudding as they say, and I have NO experience with powder coating. Alox is not an especially good black powder lube and will do nothing to soften up powder fowling.

I use the .45 caliber REAL bullets in a T/C Hawken. I generally shoot a 70 grain charge of Triple 7 atop 7 grains of 3f Old Eynsford. My lube of choice is T/C Bore Butter. I'm happy with the results, though I more often use either a PRB or a .40 caliber 180 grain sabotted pistol bullet.

Cleaning is done with Murphy's Oil Soap and hot water. I get satisfactory results. Your mileage may vary.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, so if this works for you, go for it!

 

[FishnRod]

Could you further explain the bake and shake method? I've powder coated fishing jigs before, but there was always something to hold on to. Not sure how to go about it with a bullet. Thanks!!

 

[Martin B.]

You put a handful of plastic bb's Crosman airsoft max precision .25 grams in a plastic tub. I was told that some bb's will not work but these will. Then, you add 2 tablespoons or so of powder coating powder. Add a large handful of cast bullets and put the lid on. Rotate, swirl and shake vigorously for about 1 minute. Open the lid and take out the coated bullets gently with tweezers and put them on a wire tray. Make sure that the bullets do not touch each other, but they do not have to stand up. Put that into your, not your wife's toaster oven. (Buy a new one for your wife and take the old one into the garage.) Bake it for 20 minutes and you are all done. I set my oven to about 390 F. I did some testing and found that the bullets will start to slump if you go beyond 400F. Do not worry, the powder will not burn or smell bad, but you may have a hard time with the misses if you try doing in the house. If the bullets are not covered enough for your taste you can repeat the process. It does not improove the performance, but might look prettier. You can look up the Shake and Bake method also on the internet. Good Luck!

 

[FishnRod]

Awesome
Thank you!!

 

[Winchester97]

I do a ton of powdercoating for all my cartridge guns. It's really an amazing, effective form of lubrication. I powdercoat 1 conical for my .40 flintlock, but always lubed them, never tried them dry. Sounds like it's worth looking into.

 

[longcruise]

I powder coated some 50 cal 370 grain maxis and had good results. I shot them lubed and unlubed. Didn't seem to make any difference. They were too big to load but I sized them to 501. I have to do that anyway with my mold.

I gave up on the HF stuff and got some "Super Durable Black" from Powder by the Pound. Powder Buy the Pound

 

[deerstalkert]

I powder coated some 50 cal 370 grain maxis and had good results. I shot them lubed and unlubed. Didn't seem to make any difference. They were too big to load but I sized them to 501. I have to do that anyway with my mold.

I gave up on the HF stuff and got some "Super Durable Black" from Powder by the Pound. Powder Buy the Pound

be very cautious of any black pc powder. I don't know about the Super Durable powder but the HF black i super abrasive.
OH yeah! i don't recommend using the wife's cookie sheet either. seems unreasonable to me but she didn't like little red rings all over it.

 

[dylan84]

I have been looking for some information on coating R.E.A.L bullets for the .45 flintlock I build last winter. I know that many use bore butter, Alox and similar lubricants. I cast bullets for my other guns and have done a fair amount of powder coating and shooting these bullets without getting any leading. So my thought was if I could do this also with muzzleloader conicals like R.E.A.L bullets. Yesterday, I powdercoated a hand full of bullets and shot 6 today. The load was 70 grain Goex. I had no trouble inserting the bullets into the barrel (not coned) and pushing them down on the load. I did not clean in between the shots and it was not getting harder getting them in as I progressed shooting. The cleaning was easier than the bore butter and Alox. After getting clean patches with water, I use normally dry patches. They came out clean quickly. Before, when using bore butter or Alox, I would get some black stuff on them. Now, this is not the case anymore. When putting a bore light into the bore it was clean and shiny. No leading was detected. I know, this is not the most traditional approach, but it seems that it could benefit some. When powder coating, I normally use the bake and shake method and use cheap red powder from HF.

You might be on to something. Typical use of some kind of grease is to keep fouling soft, but it also gives it something to stick to. Starting with a clean barrel and loading a coated bullet will not have any kind of sticky residues for the fouling to stick to in theory. Should also only build up so far in the barrel. I have just started playing around with the 50 cal 250 grain REAL bullet in my 1-48 twist flint renegade. Seams promising so far. Running 90-100 grains of 2F you don't have to worry about the touch hole getting clogged up that's for sure!

 

[longcruise]

I don't know about the Super Durable powder but the HF black i super abrasive.

The HF PC compound is an epoxy based product. The stuff sold by PBP is an entirely different product.

I cook mine on non stick foil. However it's only non stick on one side. Learned that the hard way.

 

[Greg_E]

Use a silicone baking sheet under shake and bake. The HF powders are not good for what we do. Eastwood Cadillac Midnight Blue is my new go to powder, covers really well. Also use a lead thermometer through the side of your cheap toaster oven, the dials may not be accurate and I've melted my fair share.

IMPORTANT! DO NOT USE AN OVEN MEANT FOR FOOD! You do not want to be cooking food in an oven used to PC. I think I paid $25 for my brand new oven to handle PC duties. I've also used this oven to bake brand new molds like some manufacturers suggest.

Use containers with a #5 recycle symbol on the bottom, I prefer food containers with a screw top lid to save things between sessions. You need the black plastic Crosman air soft ammo, other types of plastic do not work as well. Cover tweezers or glove tips in powder before grabbing rounds out of PC to put on your tray, make sure hollow point or base has been emptied, it tends to pack into those spots. I've been cleaning my rounds with 70% alcohol to remove any oils, then heat with heat gun to dry and warm them, the powder sticks better this way.


As far as PC without lube, you'll have to let us know how the fouling behaves, I've only used them greased so far.

Some ammo sized for airgun use, 320, 450, and 550 grains at 0.510.

 

[Martin B.]

With lubed R.E.A.L. bullets, I am not sure if "softening" of fouling even is possible. Since the bullet fits the bore on the bottom band and slightly gets to oversize on the following bands, it gets engraved as it gets pushed down the bore. I because of the tightness, the bullet scrapes any fowling off as it travels down the bore. There might be a little softening going on due to the pre-lubed wonderwad that sits on top of the powder, but it the softening would have to go pretty fast, since the wad and bullet gets pushed down the bore quickly. The powdercoat acts like a lube and I have recovered bullets shot with my other guns. The bullets are perfectly engraved into the powder coat and no leading occurs. I pushed them up to 2500 ft/sec. I will attempt to make a 20 shot experiment with my "un-lubed" powder coated bullets and no cleaning or scrubbing in between shots.

 

[dylan84]

It takes a lot of grease to keep fouling soft in a rifle.

 

[Greg_E]

Ok, maybe I'm wasting supplies and energy then. Eliminating the lube might also help prevent the 777 crud ring that forms where the powder meets the projectile. I may still roll them through some alox like lube, I have a big bottle of stuff and a little goes a very long way. Have to see what the weather does and see if it warms up a little. Need to get my oven out and coat some of the stuff I just cast.

 

[Martin B.]

Maybe I am ignorant with fouling and R.E.A.L bullets and yes I am somewhat green when it comes shooting black powder. Here is my theory and please prove me wrong if I am incorrect. If I push down a bullet into a dirty "fouled" barrel, my thinking is that the bullet will scrape/clean the fouling off and pushes it down and in between the bullet and the wonder wads. If I am correct, no harm is done. I will still be attempting to shoot 20 bullets without cleaning when the weather allows. I will ensure that I can seat the bullet the same depth over and over. It's supposed to get cold here on the US east coast.

 

[longcruise]

I wipe between shots for pretty much every shot regardless of the projectile. It gives better accuracy and consistency. The exception is if I'm using water/dish soap or spit for lube in a situation where im shooting continuously like in a match or trail walk.

I've never understood the desire to shoot as many shots as possible without wiping but to each his own.

 

[Greg_E]

Lee states that these REAL scrape the fouling away so that you don't need to clean as often, it's right in the user manual that comes with the molds. I can only take their word for it so far.

They also don't mention needing a wad under the bullet because it seals the bore as it loads.

 

[dylan84]

I understand swabbing between shots for long range shooting but that's about it. I like to shoot more than swab.

 

[Martin B.]

Thank you for all your input so far. What I am trying to prove is that there is no harm done to anything when shooting powder coated R.E.A.L bullets and not cleaning between shots. We have too much snow on the ground right now and cold for setting up my bench, but I will do more investigation in regards of accuracy when the weather gets better. I normally shoot in this weather only when deer hunting and my flintlock has already done its job for this year.

 

[Newtire]

With lubed R.E.A.L. bullets, I am not sure if "softening" of fouling even is possible. Since the bullet fits the bore on the bottom band and slightly gets to oversize on the following bands, it gets engraved as it gets pushed down the bore. I because of the tightness, the bullet scrapes any fowling off as it travels down the bore. There might be a little softening going on due to the pre-lubed wonderwad that sits on top of the powder, but it the softening would have to go pretty fast, since the wad and bullet gets pushed down the bore quickly. The powdercoat acts like a lube and I have recovered bullets shot with my other guns. The bullets are perfectly engraved into the powder coat and no leading occurs. I pushed them up to 2500 ft/sec. I will attempt to make a 20 shot experiment with my "un-lubed" powder coated bullets and no cleaning or scrubbing in between shots.

I do my powder coating with the Eastwood paint or some stuff sold over on the Castboolits board and just toss them in the basket. Used to go to great pains to stand them all up until a friend suggested the "just toss em in" method. Otherwise, just the #5 plastic tub that Parmesan cheese comes in, black plastic bb's, 90 shakes and swirls and 370° for 15 minutes. No special lucky t-shirt or anything else.