Practical corosivity of BP

[tenngun]

I think the purpose of Pyrodex was to be safe on a shelf on display. It has a ignition temp almost twice that of black.
I can’t tell which was is less corrosive, or if dry is better then humid, or full moons rust faster then new moons except when Venus is in Aquarius. I don’t want to find out. I clean as soon as possible after shooting.
Simple answer to stop rust... clean your gun. One shot one hundred shots it’s all the same.

 

[TFoley]

Looking back over the three years that I owned an original Lanacaster County long rifle made by Peter Gonter in ~.50cal, I recall that the bore was as bright as a new nickel almost end to end. The last three or four inches of the barrel toward the muzzle had a few very slight areas of discolouration, but they were not pits, and offered no resistant to even the finest weave of patch. Obviously we will never know how many shots had been fired in it over the years, but however many that may have been, they were all shot with black powder.

 

[TFoley]

See? ya CAN teach and old horse a new dance.
I Always thought the whole purpose of Pyrodex was its NON-corrosive property. I have never used it as i have also heard it does not work well with Flinters. And... I like BP.

A few years back I examined a stainless steel Ruger Old Army that had a totally destroyed barrel from using Pyrodex and not cleaning it out for a few months. It was shootable, but it sure as heck was not sellable. Like many folks over here who were not black powder handgun shooters until the cartridge handguns were banned, they had read all the hype at the time about not having to have an explosives license to buy the subs, and had gone ahead and done it.

As for not working in a flintlock, that is not strictly true. It WILL work in a flinter, providing that you first load a small charge of BP to light it off. It will NOT work in the pan, though, as its ignition temperature is far hotter than the sparks that have no trouble in lighting off BP.

 

[Carbon 6]

I recall that the bore was as bright as a new nickel almost end to end. The last three or four inches of the barrel toward the muzzle had a few very slight areas of discolouration, but they were not pits, and offered no resistant to even the finest weave of patch. .

What you are likely seeing is a protective oxide layer that has formed. it is not rust, it is closer to bluing. it is a good thing.

 

[Carbon 6]

As for not working in a flintlock, that is not strictly true. It WILL work in a flinter, providing that you first load a small charge of BP to light it off. It will NOT work in the pan,.

Remember, What makes a flintlock a flintlock is the FLINT LOCK. You are not igniting the pyrodex using a flintlock. you are simply using Black Powder, same as if you used a fuse.

 

[smo]

Here’s my take on this discussion for what it’s worth.

I’ve shot muzzleloaders for over 40 years now, not long compared too some here but here’s what I’ve found.

I’m not a Scientist or an Engineer , but have gained this knowledge over my journey.

Back in the day, (1970’s)
Pyrodex ,Bore Butter & Maxi- Ball’s or Buffalo Bullets coated with a yellow,hard,waxy type of bore butter was the normal combination I used .

I shot whatever load worked best in my particular rifle, mostly 60 to 90 grns charges. All were cap guns .50 cal or less.

Using the old bath tub technique, with Hot water & dish detergent. I trashed more than one barrel!

Pyrodex seemed too cook the bore butter creating a hard carbon like crust in the bore that was almost impossible too remove.

One other variable I haven’t seen mentioned , is the difference in barrel materials now vs then, modern steels I think tend to rust slower..... IMHO
I also think manufactured modern black Powder maybe less corrosive than it’s homemade chicken litter counter part. IDK just MHO.


I never foul a gun before loading, nor do I add any additional protectant too the bore after loading.

Right or wrong , I’ve had no rust issues in any of my gun since I started using Sheath, now Barricade.

I will leave my gun loaded during hunting Season up to one month using a slightly damp patch using Olive Oil as a patch lube.
Rarely have I expierenced a miss fire from my Flintlocks, never have I had too pull the load, they always fired at some point after a little tinkering.

I was also taught too always remove any “oils” from the bore prior too firing the gun, again right or wrong.... IDK, but denatured alcohol works for me.

As far as cleaning the gun, the length of time I take depends on the situation , if I’m putting the gun away for over a week, then it may take me two hours per gun start to finish.

Can I do it faster, sure but I enjoy the cleaning and always break down the lock and do a through cleaning & lubrication prior too reinstalling if it’s not going to be shot again anytime soon.

The two flintlocks I tend to shoot the most are both “in the white”, which I would think would tend to rust quicker than a barrel that has blued or browned finish, browned being a form of rust anyway.

Using Barricade has produced a grayish patina on my guns, which I 0000 steel wool the barrel as needed to control discoloration of the metal, I use a brass brush too clean the pan, lock plate and hammer .
Again right or wrong,IDK but it works for me, and I like the look of the patina the guns are getting.

The one disadvantage I see with the patina , is in certain light conditions it’s hard too clearly see the sights, funny but I don’t recall having those issues 40+ years ago! LOL

As far as brass and BP corrosion goes, I haven’t expierienced any. Discoloration yes, rust no.

This is on solid brass hardware, not brass plated.
With plated brass over time you might see an issue .. IDK.

Others mileage may vary.....

 

[smo]

As to a barrels rust pitting and accuracy, what I have found is no better than I or most common Folk shoot, I’ve seen no ill effect.
Is there an affect ? Most likely but I can’t see it with minamal pitting.

Where I have found issues with pitting was in cleaning the rifle, it’s almost impossible to get a clean patch.

I have some cap guns that haven’t been shot in 8 to 10 years, they are protected with Barricade, inside and out.

They are stored in a safe protected by a Golden Rod too control the environment internally.

When I pulled the guns out for inspection, I have found using a denatured alcohol patch I get a brownish dis colored patch on the first couple of swipes down the bore.

The second patch, after using both sides of the first one always comes out clean.

It is my belief that the Barricade forms a protective thin coating on the metal protecting it from oxygen, thus no rusting.

Again, I’m not a Scientist or an Engineer, just an old Retired Industrial Painter, who’s seen a little rust. LOL

 

[Dixieshedhunter]

Bobby Hoyt is reboring a T/C barrel of mine that was badly rusted. He does a lot of reborings-hundreds in a year. He always mentions pyrodex. I guess the people bringing the barrels to him mention it a lot.

PD

 

[TFoley]

What you are likely seeing is a protective oxide layer that has formed. it is not rust, it is closer to bluing. it is a good thing.

Sure do hope that the b******e who stole it off our 'show-and-tell' stall at the gunshow got to appreciate that...

 

[Felix the Cat]

Sheath/Barricade is what is known as a polarised compound that chemically bonds to the metal surface. It does provide a significantly longer term corrosion protection than oils and greases that simply provide a mechanical barrier..

 

[TNGhost]

What we are talking about here is plain old rust. No mystery no alchemy. Put plain old table salt on steel and it will attract dihydrogen monoxide, of which the oxygen molecules will oxidize (rust) the steel. Same process as road salt in winter eating your car body. Rinse it off and no problems.

The common denominator is water. Without it the salts deposited by ignition of BP and its imitators, and chlorate based caps, do nothing. So the more water(humidity) in the atmosphere in your AO the more you have to worry about.

FWIW the mercury that was in caps/primers is not "corrosive", but amalgamates with other metals (particularly brass) and makes them weaker/brittle.

An interesting aside, while chlorate containing caps/primers contained more salt than BP, their "corrosive" effects were only really appreciated with the advent of smokeless powder, as the ignition residues from BP diluted and carried away much of their effect.

 

[Rat]

Black powder is NOT hydroscopic. The fouling is. Is that what you meant?

I am of the clean the gun as soon as possible camp, and carry a small cleaning kit in my pack, in case I have to spend a night in the woods next to a kill. However, once upon a time, a friend of mine bought a cap-n-ball revolver from another friend. We went to look at it, and it had been fired, then put in the sock drawer for over six months. I was amazed that the gun had no, none so ever rust on it anywhere. Sock drawer must have been a perfect dry environment...but still I was, and am still amazed. It just looked like it had been fired a couple of hours before.

I have never had a gun rust, but still I am a little OCD about keeping them clean, and cleaning as soon as possible, (but eating comes first!) and hunting with a clean rifle or musket.

 

[M. De Land]

As to a barrels rust pitting and accuracy, what I have found is no better than I or most common Folk shoot, I’ve seen no ill effect.
Is there an affect ? Most likely but I can’t see it with minamal pitting.

Where I have found issues with pitting was in cleaning the rifle, it’s almost impossible to get a clean patch.

I have some cap guns that haven’t been shot in 8 to 10 years, they are protected with Barricade, inside and out.

They are stored in a safe protected by a Golden Rod too control the environment internally.

When I pulled the guns out for inspection, I have found using a denatured alcohol patch I get a brownish dis colored patch on the first couple of swipes down the bore.

The second patch, after using both sides of the first one always comes out clean.

It is my belief that the Barricade forms a protective thin coating on the metal protecting it from oxygen, thus no rusting.

Again, I’m not a Scientist or an Engineer, just an old Retired Industrial Painter, who’s seen a little rust. LOL

One of the best tricks I have learned in water cleaning is to immediately run a WD-40 patch down barrel as soon as I'm done with soap water and rinse, which is the best cleaning method I have ever used. The WD removes water from the groove corners and bore pores, then wipe out and coat with our favorite bore protect-ant.
I have found warm water is best not hot as it will not cause flash rust before the WD-40 treatment.
If you don't get the water out of the bore oil does no good to preserve the metal.

 

[Carbon 6]

Black powder is NOT hydroscopic. .

Black powder and substitutes are all hygroscopic. However, Additives are added to reduce the hygroscopicity. When the powder is burned, extremely hygroscopic byproducts are created.
In the case of BP graphite, carbon black, or some other form of carbon is added as an anti-clumping agent. Carbon in the form of charcoal has been used to control moisture for centuries. The process of corning also gives it some resistance. If you use a substitute you may have noticed a silica gel pack in the can. These are there to absorb excess humidity so the powder doesn't.

 

[Rat]

Well, riddle me this:

If I were to set a small pile of black powder out in a downpour rain, for three days, with a small dish, or a hubcap above it so the rain did not fall directly on the powder, would a single spark set it off, and it would flash normally, or would it be wet powder?? There would be about four inches between the hubcap and the ground, so the powder would only be protected from the rain falling directly above. Otherwise exposed to the air in a 360 degree circle. ?

 

[Carbon 6]

Well, riddle me this:

If I were to set a small pile of black powder out in a downpour rain, for three days, with a small dish, or a hubcap above it so the rain did not fall directly on the powder, would a single spark set it off, and it would flash normally, or would it be wet powder?? There would be about four inches between the hubcap and the ground, so the powder would only be protected from the rain falling directly above. Otherwise exposed to the air in a 360 degree circle. ?

One cannot say with absolute certainty ,but I would not bet on it. You provided many variables, "a single spark" ? What are the odds of that alone?
A bowl above a dish of powder would not provide sufficient protection from splashing in a "downpour." It is likely that both bowls would be full of water. You also didn't provide a temperature ( a crucial factor). Getting powder wet from rain and Hygroscopicity are not comparable IMO. I think every flintlock shooter has had a misfire in the rain at least once.

 

[TNGhost]

Well there is that age old maxim "keep your powder dry".

 

[smo]

I don’t use water for cleaning anymore, will it work absolutely but IMHO the one shot removes the fouling quicker.
Before the One Shot I used Windshield Washer fluid instead of water.

I don’t use WD 40 any longer either, denathured alcohol will remove all the water prior too loading.

For what it worth, wet Powder will not burn, it will dry out over time , and then it will burn.

 

[Carbon 6]

How much does that stuff cost? I saw it online for $15.00

 

[smo]

I didn’t say it was cheap, lol just that it works.

I ordered two bottles year before last and I would say I’ve shot 3 to 4 lbs of powder since then and still have a bottle and a half left.

In my rifle 6 to 7 patches with one spray each gets the fouling out.

It seems using it as a patch lube keeps the bore as clean as if you only fired one shot, that makes the final clean up a breeze.

I follow the 6-7 cleaning patches with a denature alcohol patch to dry the bore , then a patch soaked in Barricade for rust protection.

It works for me....your mileage my vary.

I do not use this for a hunting lube, for that I use Olive Oil , applies too the patch material in the same way.

I’m not convinced that “One Shot” is “all that” when it come to a protectant, but as a cleaner , I like it!