Pretzels?

[tenngun]

After a bit of time I found it... they were called jumbles

 

[coloradoclyde]

OMG!....Now you've gone and opened a can of worms.....

To my best recollection Jumbles originated in the Middle East....whereas pretzels are European. They are usually sweet and take many forms...They can be similar to pretzels....With one main distinction. If it is shaped like a pretzel, it is called a pretzel...And becomes a pretzel. If it is twisted, round, sweet etc....It can be a Jumble.

The Jumble is said to pre-date the Pretzel....The Pretzel probably was derived from the jumble...Entering Europe through Spain by the Moors.

It's kind of like distinguishing noodles.....Almost every culture has them....they come in a multitude of shapes, sizes, etc....and are almost as old as time themselves...

One other thing....
Traditionally, sweets were forbidden during lent....So no jumbles.

 

[Nativearizonan]

Hmm. I found a recipe for Tudor era Jumbles (knot biscuits), and they do have sugar, but no leavening:
http://meadowbrownbakery.com/jumbles-tudor-knot-biscuits/

So, if they had these things in the Middle East, maybe they actually could have had them at the Last Supper.

 

[coloradoclyde]

So, if they had these things in the Middle East, maybe they actually could have had them at the Last Supper.

Nobody will ever know....And it is highly doubtful...Unless you can find a 2000 year old reference for jumbles.

 

[tenngun]

Well, I was not trying to open a can of worms for sure, just noted that some of the pretzels may not have been. Some times we see in paintings something the artist wasn't thinking. I would think even twisting a bread roll in to a pretzel shape would be handy. I wonder how those old pretzels would taste compared to modern ones

 

[coloradoclyde]

The ones painted by Clara Peeters could very well be jumbles..

 

[Loyalist Dave]

who cares about pretzels!?

SACRILEGE!

LD

 

[tenngun]

Then Mia culpa. I never cared for them hard or soft. When I get a party mix I sneak the pretzel sticks out and feed them to my puppies. :grin:

 

[Black Hand]

....maybe they actually could have had them at the Last Supper.

I thought we were discussing facts...?

 

[omarick1948]

Black Hand, Lighten up! Life's to short!

 

[Black Hand]

Black Hand, Lighten up! Life's to short!

ff

 

[satx78247]

Hateful little twits just have to be hateful.= That's why they are known as haters.

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

Hateful little twits just have to be hateful.= That's why they are known as haters.

yours, satx

That's rich - considering the person posting. Crawl back under your bridge...

What does an unsubstantiated story from an allegorical collection of writings have to do with pretzels? This was an interesting thread until it went off the rails into fantasy-land.

 

[tenngun]

Old painting tended to update historic events. King David or Agamemnon might be painted in modern clothing... of the artist times. Da Vinci’s last supper is in a fifteenth century Italian hall. Not long ago there was a Romeo and Juliet’ done in modern NYC.

 

[coloradoclyde]

.
What does an unsubstantiated story from an allegorical collection of writings have to do with pretzels? This was an interesting thread until it went off the rails into fantasy-land.

Well, the pretzel was added to the story to make it relatable and credible to a specific group...we see this time and again, each group does this..it has been done over 3000 times...
But! that's not the point.
It's about the timeline and the location of the pretzel references....
The pretzel in the scene of the last supper is irrelevant. What is relevant is that someone painted a pretzel in the 12th century.

 

[Black Hand]

The pretzel in the scene of the last supper is irrelevant. What is relevant is that someone painted a pretzel in the 12th century.

I agree, hence my comment.
If people could stick to the facts rather than wandering off on speculative flights of fancy, these discussions would be far more interesting and useful...

 

[Nativearizonan]

I plead guilty, not to a speculative flight of fancy but to a bit of sarcasm, which at least someone here took to be a serious post. I apologize for not adding the proper emoticon, or symbol, to let others know it was meant as a humorous post and not an attempt at defining fact.

Of course I do not believe there is but the tiniest possibility there were pretzels served at the Last Supper. To delve any deeper in that subject would, of course, go against the rules of the forum regarding discussion of religion.

It was a tongue in cheek remark in response to all the depictions of said situation posted by CC.

If that person or persons who believed it was a speculative flight of fantasy would read the whole thread, they would find I made several posts which were, in my mind, helpful in finding the true origins of pretzels.

It appears to me a case was made for pretzels to be used very early in the Catholic Church as a lenten food, as early as the 4th or 5th century, and they were established as a popular German food, baked by commercial bakeries by the 11th century. When they were brought to America, has not been established, but early 18th century introduction by German immigrants seems quite likely.

Anything else said about pretzels, by me or any other posters, is merely for entertainment, in my mind. A bit of humor and speculation does not hurt a serious conversation, as long as that humor and speculation is identified as such. I thought it was obvious, but perhaps not to everyone.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

A bit of humor and speculation does not hurt a serious conversation, as long as that humor and speculation is identified as such. I thought it was obvious, but perhaps not to everyone.

“Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better, but the frog dies in the process.” E. B. White. :shocked2:


LD

 

[Nativearizonan]

After going back through this thread, I found close to half of the posts seem unrelated to Pretzels, or speculative in nature. I have to wonder why Mr. Hand chose my post to criticize. Hmmm.

It's not the first time.

I'm thinking it goes back to a grudge I have not pursued, perhaps about opinions of Native Americans, or Southerners, or both; though I am not sure of that. Maybe because I'm a newby, compared to him, at this website. Perhaps it is just coincidence, that I end up as the target of his attacks. Perhaps I only notice the attacks on me, and not similar attacks on others. I admit to not reading every thread on this forum all the time, so that could be the case.

It bothers me though. I read his post last night and started to respond in similar form before realizing I had imbibed a bit and it would constitute PWI (posting while intoxicated) on my part, which may not have reflected my true meanings.

To begin with, I was going to address him as Black Heart, which would have been wrong and would not have served any purpose other than just a retaliatory attack, which is not needed at this point. I also apologize for thinking of doing this. I know he is a good person, I have never met anyone interested in muzzle loaders and hunting who were not basically good people, although some may suffer from too much alcohol and lead poisoning, myself included.

I am extending the olive branch. I hope Black Hand accepts it.

Carrying grudges is not good for this site, or for any type of communication.

 

[coloradoclyde]

It appears to me a case was made for pretzels to be used very early in the Catholic Church as a lenten food, as early as the 4th or 5th century,

I'm interested in sources for those dates....PM me if you're worried about breaking rules.