"Prick your Lock" - a horror story

[flm_shooter]

Stop me if you've heard this one before...

So I was at the range last month shooting a match and having a problem with ignition. Hangfires, flash in the pan, you name it. This was a custom flinter made in 1978 by an Ohio gunsmith for my father. It has sat on the wall for many years between uses.

Anyway, the old-timers amble over and start offering advice (all greatly appreciated!). They noted that, although I was using a prick to clean out the vent, it was oddly shaped. It was a hand-wrought iron piece that probably didn't reach halfway through the barrel. They promptly whittled up a new one from a plastic stick they found.

Yes, you guessed it. I loaded up, walked toward the firing line and whacked that plastic piece with my hand. Snapped it clean off right at the touchhole.

FIRST thing we did was pull the bullet and dump the charge. Then we spent an hour trying to get that plastic out. The touchhole liner had a verrrry shallow screwdriver cut on it, but nothing would grab hold.

I gave up the match, went home, and pulled out an easy-out. The touchhole liner just laughed at it. To make a long story short, I took the barrel to a friend's machine shop. One large vise and drill-press later, I had it out. The original gunsmith had lock-tighted the liner in.

Now I have a non-functional rifle, a couple new touchhole liners on order, and a new-found respect for anyone who ever put a feather in their touchhole.

 

[Birddog6]

Couldn't you take a drill bit & drill it out or take a old small drill bit shank & grasp it with some vice grips & punch the plastic piece that is broke off thru the vent & into the barrel.
I have seen this happen several times at the range & we just punched them thru & went back to shootin. Also seen it happen at least a dozen times with a toothpick & we punch them thru also.
When I brown a barrel I drive in a round toothpick & cut it off flush on the vent to keep the solution from going into the barrel. Just punch it thru when done.

If you are going to make a plastic vent pick, I suggest the lil light blue flossing sticks you buy in a pack for the drug store or Wal-Mart. You can trim one down & they are very pliable & will bend over & over again & have seen none of these break so far. Personally, I prefer the hand forged 2" vent pick from TOW. You can bend the last 1/2" of it & curve it towards the main charge. Also it is tapered so it reams the fouling out of the vent liner & keeps the buildup down.

 

[flm_shooter]

We actually tried that first, out at the range. After further discussion about the misfires, one suggestion was that the liner itself was corroded / blocked partialy, resulting in the misfires. I figured it was better to get a new one than keep trying with the old one.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, unfortunate ya had to do all of that. I don't know why anyone would locktight a vent liner in, as I have never seen one back out. If you have to drill over a 1/4" vent, I suggest trying a Chamber White Lightning vent liner. They work wonderfully & then come in 1/4", 5/16" & 3/8". They are the non-removable types is the only drawback. I have been using them on some of my rifles & am quite pleased with them.

 

[Randy]

I saw a vent liner come out by itself once. It was on a Traditions rifle I think. Anyhow this gun saw lots of use and the owner screwed the liner out every time he cleaned the gun, eventually wewaring the threads. Maybe it wasn't screwed all the way back in. It was just lucky nobody was standing to his right. It chipped the flint and put a dent in the frizzen as it left the barrel.
I like the white lightning liners too. No chance of wearing out the threads either.

Horse Dr.

 

[kvistads]

Fillmore:
Every touch-hole liner I ever used (installed) for any length of time wouldn't come back out. I don't know if it is negligence on my part for not removing and cleaning/lube the liner more often or not. What I'm trying to say is that I doubt the thing had locktite put on it. It just doesn't take long at all for the things to become "welded" to a barrel.

I have repeated this before but will say again. Birddog6 and Horse Doctor have it right about the Jim Chambers White Lightning liners. He sells the proper size drill bit and tap for these liners. They are as previously said "non removable" once installed. I have tried all types of liners as well as home-brewed a few myself and none worked like the W.L. To keep the barrel and liner clean as it should be kept, he "Jim" sells a flushing gizmo that clamps across the barrel where the flash hole is. You simply flush out with window washer fluid like the type you have in your car. As far as that goes you can use any solution you like. I just like the W.washer fluid and the one gallon jug. Good luck.

 

[Birddog6]

Horse Doctor: Most of the liner problems I have seen have been from people installing them keeps overtightening them or they put in the Wrong Size Threads & force them or they are too loose & they bind them anyway, etc. I have seen "LOTS" of standard nipples in metric tapped holes & the guys just crank them til the hold, well, sorta hold.....
I have some rifles that I have taken the vents liners out literally thousands of times & they are still snug as a bug in a rug. However, I have seen Lots of Nipples & Vent Liners improperly installed & have loose threads because of improper drill size & using wrong taps, dull taps, improper use of taps, taping oblong holes, using standard threads in metric threaded holes & reverse, just all kinds of stuff.
As for seized up liners, yep, seen it happen lots of times. Chemical reaction between 2 metals, rust, corrosion, whatever. On mine I put Antisieze on the vent liners threads on rifles I build & have not personally had a problem with any of them..

 

[roundball]

TC now uses significantly improved vent liners in their flint barrels...they are 1/4 X 28 X .075" stainless with large hex wrench opening on the outside, not a screwdriver slot.

I clean by heavy pump flushing with the liner still in place, then pump flush with it removed.

Dry everything with compressed air and patches, then heavily lube the vent seat and the vent liner with natural lube 1000, finger tighten the liner back in with a hex wrench.

I've averaged shooting / cleaning them 2-3 times a month for a couple years now and so far, no stuck liners

 

I take the liner out of my rifles for cleaning a few times a year, usually after a week long rendezvous, and they do stick like s#*t to a blanket. The fouling seems to get into the threads just enough to hold it tight. I like to remove it to clean the threads and the breech plug face before storing for a long time.
BTW, I always use a 3/8" liner as I find the 1/4" ones too small. It gives me a nice big "chamber" for the powder and the pan rests up against it so it is impossible for it to shoot out of the barrel without taking the lock or at least the pan with it. I also open up the inside of the liner and deepen it so that the liner is only about 1/64 or less thick at the touch hole thus putting the powder charge VERY close to the pan charge. works like a charm.

Cody

 

[flm_shooter]

The liner actually came out quite nicely, with his big vise and correct tool. The shop guy pointed at some residue on the last few threads and called it lock-tite. Maybe this was built up corrosion over the years?

The threads are in great condition, and the guys in brown trucks are bringing me a new liner as we speak. Having that big hole in the side has given me a good look at the breech and its condition.

Can anyone give me a reason not to have the lock sitting tightly against the barrel? This rifle, made by a pretty expert builder in Ohio,requires a very thin leather shim between the pan and the barrel. Everything else on it is such high quality, I can't imagine he didn't design it that way on purpose.

 

[roundball]

If I understood your post correctly:

"loc-Tite" isn't a buildup, it's a fast setting bonding liquid that is used intentionally to keep screws from coming loose by themselves.
Blue loc-tite (a.k.a.gun-tite) will break free with normal tools, screwdrivers, etc.
Red loc-tite (sometimes used on auto engines)
requires heat from a torch to loosen it up.

Ideally, locks should fit right up against the side of the breech/barrel to seal out powder from trickling down / building up inside the lock internals, then igniting from a subsequent pan flash...the shim was possibly an attempt to block powder from falling down in there.

 

[garypl]

I have always used a thin sheet of lead hammered from a round ball as a gasket between the lock and barrel. You can pound the lead paper-thin and it absolutely prevents any powder or moisture from trickling down into the lock recess. I make mine about 1/4" wide by 1.5" long - have had the current seal in place in my flintlock since 1980 and it still does the job.