problem with a flinter

[45-70cannon]

Sorry boyz I'm clueless. By the way, I've done the crisco thing already.
Once again, I repeat, the gun will not accept a .020 lubed patch and 490 ball, not without hammering it down the barrel. O.K.? Do you think This clueless person is making this stuff up?
Are you that daft?YOu talk about starting it with your finger. I wish one of my loads, one of my loads I could do that with, including the .015 and 490 ball which also you cannot start with your finger.
Does that tell you brainy children something?

 

[45-70cannon]

And here I thought there would be people that could help me! Well there are a couple that gave me ideas to try but so far? Its easier picking on the shooter than the weapon, however I shoot back, the poor ol weapon can't do that.
Me clueless, you brainy. come on over and show me how its done why don't you, I have a feeling you'd all go home with your jack azz tails between your legs.

 

[45-70cannon]

Dan, what rest of the story are you atalking about?

 

[45-70cannon]

The rest of the story, let me see here how's this, back 20 odd years ago I belonged to a sporting club tha had within it's ranks the Crey Mountain Firelock Association. That was a Flintlock club that shot every Tuesday and Saturday evening and made up of quite a group of good ol' boyz shooting everything from LD rifles to Grt Plains Rifles and we would sponsor hunter's walks and have a grand ol time. I've been around some of the best shooters of Leonard day guns over the last ten years of this rifle's existance and it still shoots the same.
I'm sorry you are having a problem trying to see the "rest of whatever story you think there is"

But then again, you don't know me and I don't know you either, but the way its going, need I say more?

 

[45-70cannon]

Back in the day (before computers were invented I used to grab the mic and head for the fabric shop, mic out what I needed and go home and take out the hammer and patch punch and punch 'em out and lube them up with crisco or whatever I was using at the time. Then I got to doing the patch strip over my shoulder and patch knife, that came in handy at the woods walks, but that's all stuff I don't do no more. Got lyme and lyme stops ya from doin a lot.
Now a days ya gotta find the fabric shops as most of them our way went down the toilet a while ago.
Now ya gotta know the size and thickness and order it from Dixie.
Well, most often times I just grab the gun I know the best and the load I know what works, and this morning, I'm going to the range with Ol' Thumper and make sure that load is still true. So we'll be back at ya later.

 

[Birddog6]

Maybe I missed it someplace........ but have you tried a smaller ball than a .490 ? maybe a .480 ball ? maybe the bore is not what it is supposed to be ?

Just a thought :hmm:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Actually, Richard, I am a bit older than you are and have been around muzzleloading since I was nine years old. I have had a few problem guns that were quickly dealt with by changing one component at a time. I also had help from kindly folk who were given all the information that I had up front, not dribbled out in bits as you have done. Now we find out that the rifle is ten years old. Next we will discover that you are as well. And all will be explained.

Yes, Leonard is a friend and he has built many fine guns at fair prices and he knows more about muzzloaders than you ever will. He is also a gentleman and not here to protect his name from any nasty and arrogant little troll that might happen along. I guess that makes you feel like you almost have a pair without having any risk of rebuttal. If I find the time, I'll drop by his shop and let him know about this thread. He's only about 8 miles away, so when I run out for the paper maybe I'll check in with him. There seems little doubt that he will have forgotten such a knowledgeable and pleasant customer as yourself.

I know enough about CVAS to know that I would never buy one and that they no longer sell sidelocks, therefor I suspect they are not updating many of their out of production guns. Still, throwing a gun into a reservoir, whether in Massachusetts, Peru or Outer Mongolia is not the act of a mature adult and if you think it is than perhaps, Grasshopper, you are bit less in tune with yourself than you think, and more of a petulant little child in need of some quiet time.

Whatever. You have been given assistance by some of the most skilled and experienced flintlock riflemen around to no avail. Throw the rifle in the nearest reservoir and jump in after it--this will not make it shoot and better, but will end this hopeless attempt to assist you. Or, if you prefer, why not just go to your church and spend some personal time playing with your organ?

Thank you for the kind offer regarding the bow and arrow lessons but I'll pass. Frankly I have no wish to know you any better and if your capabilities with your rifle are any indication, you probably can't hit anything with the bow anyway and I'd have go find a reservoir for you to toss it into. At least it isn't a CVA bow. Oh, wait. I'll bet you are the World Champion bow shooter Whizzbang of New England, right? Although your astonishing skills with a short barreled .56 caliber smooth bore do leave room for hope...

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'm not sure why you find it relevant, but I do know where White (not White's) Reservoir is. It is about 7 miles due west of where I am sitting. Thinking about poking about for that old CVA you tossed in there or just tossing your present problem child in beside it? Come to think of it Richard, you have a bit of a history of having problems with flintlocks, don't you? And you don't seem interested in using the help offered to you by others. Perhaps you should just stick to your bow and arrows and gazing into the mirror at the wondrous image to be beheld there. Be one with the arrow O Great And Mighty Suppository! All bow before the Splendid Wun Hung Lo master of the zen art of rifle tossing and obfuscating. Have a nice day Dick--it's been fun. :thumbsup:

 

[Tinker2]

Richard

Having read all of this post and attempting to understand your position,
I think that 10 year is long enough to be frustrated.

I think that you would be happy if you get another barrel that is to your
liking, it appears to me that you did not like the barrel that you got in the
first place. Just luck of the draw. If I were to do that, I would have
someone else do the work. Just because it is the right way to do things.

I would not take anything back ten years later and say I was unhappy
with it, that would be poor form on my part.

I would take it to someone else and put the barrel of my choice on it.


I am sure that you can then sell your old barrel.
Whom every you would choose to do the work do not let them read this.


Tinker2

 

[45-70cannon]

Well, I have some of my other hunting friends who also shoot flinters that agree with you and agree with me too. They said for me to get another barrel and I will one of these days. They are of the mind that when you spend $1200.00 for a rifle, it damn better hit what it is aimed at BEFORE you pick it up. Unfortunately some of the primadona ballerinas on this web page are too busy protecting the man's name. In my book when you make a product, and I don;t care if it is a gun or a box of spaghetti, if there is something wrong with it, you fix it and make nice.
Mr. Frizzen walk down to his house and I'll meet you there, with the gun!
In this case this is a custom weapon and the problem should've been delt with swiftly and not over a period of years, which is what has happened here, and I don't give a owl's hoot how much the man knows about this or that, as the gun shoots like manure. Furthermore, I have been on internet pages before where (and I am not saying this about everyone here) just a few likely morons that simply repeat things they've heard others say or they might've even read a book, providing they could read in the first place, and repeated it. Goody!
No I have never tried a smaller ball, that has never come across my desk, nor would I have thought of it.
And congratulations on your age there, frozzen,
forget the bow lessons. You are mechanical and should probably do well with a compound or a crossbow.
Thanks gentlemen but this website reminds me of another and I really don't want to be part of it. There are just too many professors here that think they are the best and probably are, in their own mind.
Thankfully, I am not one nor will I ever be.

ta-ta

 

[Zonie]

Well Richard. I suppose you won't be reading this after that last post of yours but if you do, please quit using terms for the other members that would be censored if you spelled them correctly.

That said, it sounds like your gun might have a defective barrel but the fact that it hasn't been shot enough to wear the sharp edges off of the rifling suggests that it may not even be broken in yet.

Many muzzleloading barrels shoot wildly until they have had 200 or more shots fired thru them.
The steel wool treatment is just a rapid way to help "break in" the barrel and may I add that because the steel wool isn't any harder than the steel of the barrel it takes a LOT of pumping it up and down the barrel to get the job done.

I noticed that after you used the steel wool around the jag trick you said it improved the groups you were getting. The fact that the gun still doesn't like the heavier powder loads indicates to me that it needs quite a lot more of the treatment. In other words, your on the right track, you just haven't gone far enough.

As for patching a .490 diameter ball with .020 thick patches, you are totally correct. They will need a short starter to get them started into the bore.
Once started however they should not require much more than a 5-10 pound push with the ramrod to seat them on the powder.
I have loaded and shot thousands of .490 diameter pure lead balls patched with .018 thick patches thru my Green Mountain .50 caliber barrels and after starting them into the bore they all were quite easy to ram down to the powder unless I had shot over 5 shots without wiping.
It a ball/patch combination like this require more pressure than that in your barrel it indicates that either the patch lube isn't working or the bore is very rough.

When I say "very rough" I'm talking about "pitted rusty rough".
If your barrel is that bad it should be lapped by a professional or replaced.
After 10 years though you can't expect the builder to do this for nothing. After all, as far as he knows the roughness was caused by you.

Oh, patch/ball fit was mentioned.
Yes, the sum of the ball diameter plus twice the patch thickness (it is on both sides of the ball) should always be much larger than the bore size.
In the case of a .490 ball plus a .018 patch it would equal .526.
Where does all of this extra material go when it's started into the barrel with a short starter? Much of it is compressed and the soft lead ball does deform fairly easily too. That's why you can see the fabric marks on the outside of the ball after it is shot (if you can find it).

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well, I'm excepting her the way she is. She is shooting fairly accurately at 25 yards, only low so I took a bit off my front blade this evening and tomorrow morning I'll hit the range again and see where she is shooting.

Well you're getting somewhere now. I don't touch the file to the sights until I've run 200 or so balls through a new barrel as it takes that long for the tooling marks to wear in (L.C. Rice barrels excepted). Low is where you want to be because you can correct that by filing the front sight down. But first get the groups tight.

What's the twist? That could explain some of your shot scattering. A 1:80" likes a fast ball and 70 gr in a .54 is a very mild load. I use 85 gr FFFg in my 1:72" .54 flinter. That's equivalent to 90 gr FFg +/-.

 

[Dphar]

Dan, what rest of the story are you atalking about?

We have no idea what the makers side of this is.
There are always 2 storys.
But in my opinon, being a maker, the maker should have had this shooting at least close to the sights before it was delivered.

If you are as experienced as you claim and are having these problems and you do not with other MLs ITS BARREL RELATED.
A 50 cal with a .020 patch should load OK though some like my Colerains may need a starter.
Once started they should go down with normal pressure. If they go down hard after starting then there is a lube or a bore finish problem. Probably bore. If a 490 needs a .015 patch you either have a tight bore or you expect it to load much easier than is realistic.
We cannot fix this long distance, we can only make comments based on what you tell us.

You make flippant remarks that sound arrogant to some of us. YOU came here and asked a question. We cannot control your reaction to the answers. I have only had one barrel that loaded as you describe and I got a refund for it.

Dan