Problems After Shot # 7

[Bent Sight]

I picked up a Thompson Center Renegade the day before Thanksgiving and have been working on load development. This is my first experience with a black powder firearm. I developed an accurate 50 meter load, but I start having issues after the first 7 shots.

I am using 70g of Pyrodex, a CVA lubed patch, a Thompson Center .490" round ball and a CCI # 11 cap. With a clean rifle, the first 7 shots were trouble free today. Shots 8 & 9 sounded like a delay fire and shot # 10 was a misfire. I cleaned the nipple and shot # 10 fired. Five of the next 10 shots fired without issue, but five of them required I push a wire through the nipple before the rifle would fire. Two of the last 10 shots required that I remove the nipple and place some FF underneath the nipple before the rifle would fire. What is interesting is that putting FF under the nipple did not cause a shot to go outside the group.

Before I went to the range, I cleaned all oil out of the bore and nipple with 91% isopropyl alcohol. I fired two caps before loading the first shot. I pushed a dry patch down the barrel between shots to remove fouling.

Is it normal for gunk to build up and start causing issues after 7 rounds? Could the lube on the CVA patch cause this? During the last trip to the range I managed to fire 9 trouble free shots before having issues.

 

[Zonie]

Next time you want to wipe the bore, do not use a dry patch.

Dry patches, when they don't get stuck in the bore, tend to knock the fouling off of the bore walls and if you pump the dry patch and cleaning rod a few times it can blow that loose fouling back thru the nipple.

Rather than using a dry patch, use a slightly moistened cleaning patch. It should be damp but not dripping wet.

Push it down the bore to the breech and let it sit for at least 5 seconds. Then, pull it back out in one smooth pull.
Most, if not all of the fouling will come with it.

After doing this, run a dry patch down the bore and back out to dry out any moisture that might remain.

I've shot quite a bit of Pyrodex and I've noticed that after the first two shots, the fouling does not seem to build up in the bore like real black powder does.

I've shot over 15 shots in a row using Pyrodex and never felt a need to wipe the bore.

I cannot say the same for real black powder.
After 4 shots using real black powder the fouling is bad enough that ramming a patched ball down the bore is more than a little difficult.

Knowing this, when I'm shooting real black powder in my flintlocks, I always wipe the bore, using the same method I mentioned above, after each shot.

 

[nwtradegun]

use real blackpowder , 3 f swiss.

 

[sidelock]

Switch to real BP.

 

[BigAl52]

Im on board with real black junk the phony stuff.

 

[azmntman]

Swipe with the moist patch after every shot.

NEVER push a dry patch down a dirty bore. You WILL end up shooting the jag out soon (if you are lucky anough to be able to unscrew the ram rod :shake: )

 

[coloradoclyde]

I pushed a dry patch down the barrel between shots to remove fouling.

Not necessary with pyrodex....


Were you using pre-lubed CVA patches or CVA lube?
Both are terrible for fouling....Try spit.
I can go 30 round or more without having to swab.

Also pyrodex P shoots better, ignites better and fouls less than pyrodex RS.

 

[Bent Sight]

I pushed a dry patch down the barrel between shots to remove fouling.

Not necessary with pyrodex....


Were you using pre-lubed CVA patches or CVA lube?
Both are terrible for fouling....Try spit.
I can go 30 round or more without having to swab.

Also pyrodex P shoots better, ignites better and fouls less than pyrodex RS.

I used pre-lubed CVA patches. I am not sure what CVA uses for lube on them.

 

[Mean Gene]

I shoot pyrodex all of the time, I also had misfires and some one on the forum suggested I use a spit patch followed by a dry patch.
I started wiping between shots with the spit patch and dry patch and haven't had any more problems.
Trust these guys, they really know what there talking about.

 

[Boomerang]

I usually wipe between shots with a moist patch. Keep the hammer on half cock when doing it and push the patch down the bore rather quickly. That will force air through the nipple and keep it clear of fowling.

 

[F.G. Ford]

IF you want to shoot well, consistently, and long term at each shooting get and study the Dutch Shoultz paper, it is well worth the money and you will enjoy BP shooting much more.
Fred

 

[RUDY MR]

My thing is to use 3fg powder an 70 gr load works great less junk all around :metoo:

 

[Bent Sight]

I took the Renegade out to the range today and fired 35 trouble free shots, which is a first for me. I fired 20 shots without pushing a patch through the bore between shots. The 20th shot sounded like there was a slight delay between the cap detonating and the powder igniting, so I decided to swab the barrel.

I put a finger over the end of the nipple, poured 2 oz. of water in the muzzle, then pushed a tight fitting patch through the bore. A stream of water came shooting out of the nipple. I repeated the process with another 2 oz. of water. Then I took a patch soaked in 91% isopropyl alcohol, pushed it through the bore and waited 5 minutes for everything to dry.

After flushing the nipple (and I am guessing the patent breech) with water, I fired another 15 trouble free shots without patching between shots.

I fired two groups using 40g of Pyrodex and T/C round balls, the first group with 15 fouling shots and the second group with 5 fouling shots. The second group was noticeably smaller, but slightly larger than groups I fired on previous range outings when I dry patched the bore between shots.

Not patching between shots made a noticeable difference in accuracy on paper, but everything grouped under 2-3/4" at 50 meters. Practicing offhand, accuracy was good enough to disintegrate a few orange clay birds I set on the berm.

Next trip out I am going to try the spit patch followed by a dry patch between shots and see how the Renegade groups @ 50 meters.

Shooting muzzle loaders is becoming addictive. I am already shopping around for an additional rifle.

 

[Zonie]

Next trip out I am going to try the spit patch followed by a dry patch between shots and see how the Renegade groups @ 50 meters.

Like I said before, running a dry patch down a fouled bore is a good way to get the patch stuck in the barrel.

Use a damp patch followed by a dry one.

 

[mooman76]

You shouldn't need a dry patch if you are using spit patch anyway. Try w/o for a few shots and see. A dry patch can give you a stuck ramrod and stuck good. Every once in awhile we get a new person here asking us how to remove a stuck ramrod.

 

[Bent Sight]

You shouldn't need a dry patch if you are using spit patch anyway. Try w/o for a few shots and see. A dry patch can give you a stuck ramrod and stuck good. Every once in awhile we get a new person here asking us how to remove a stuck ramrod.

BDT. Every mistake the average muzzle loader has made in the first six years, I made in the first six days. I stuck a ramrod in the bore on the second outing. I took the rifle home, removed the nipple, squirted soap down the bore and applied 120 PSI from the air compressor nozzle to the nipple orifice. I have the ramrod mark on the garage ceiling to prove it.

 

[Black Hand]

I stuck a ramrod in the bore on the second outing. I took the rifle home, removed the nipple, squirted soap down the bore and applied 120 PSI from the air compressor nozzle to the nipple orifice. I have the ramrod mark on the garage ceiling to prove it.

All you needed to do was pour a little water down the muzzle, wait a few minutes and pull the ramrod (and patch) out.

 

[tenngun]

One other thing, put the rifle on half cock. Listen for a whistle of air as the patch goes down. This means your fire path is open. I blow down the bore after each shot, but some think that’s a no-no, and not looking to open that can of worms here. You do need a free air way, if you can’t here air coming out the nipple fire can’t get in.

 

[Bent Sight]

I stuck a ramrod in the bore on the second outing. I took the rifle home, removed the nipple, squirted soap down the bore and applied 120 PSI from the air compressor nozzle to the nipple orifice. I have the ramrod mark on the garage ceiling to prove it.

All you needed to do was pour a little water down the muzzle, wait a few minutes and pull the ramrod (and patch) out.

I had an oversize shotgun patch on the end of the ramrod stuck in the bore. Even after I squirted soap down the bore, followed by a generous amount of soapy water, the ramrod would not budge. I was afraid I was going to pull the end off the ramrod.

Some days I could ruin an anvil without much effort.

 

[M. De Land]

First, ditch the pyrodex and get some real black powder then give this method a try. I just dreamed it up last summer and it seems to work.
Load as you normally do for the first shot but after that do your reload as follows: dump the fresh powder charge then run a stiff dry bristle brush down bore on top the fresh powder, withdraw after a couple of barrel traverses and now seat your lubed patched ball.
The stiff brush keep the fouling from building up and what it pushes down bore on top of your fresh powder is harmless creating a barrier between the new patched ball and powder charge.
I made two separate loading rods so I don't have to keep changing between jag and brush.
I'll bet you can shoot all day with this method without misfires.
The misfires happen because your pushing a big load of fouling down bore each time you clean, into the fire channel. When it's fouled enough it blocks the cap flash to the main charge.
With the method described you are never pushing barrel fouling back into the flash channel.