Problems: Problems

[crs1945]

I need HELP!! After cleaning my 45c Jukar Rifle I loaded it with 30 gr. 777 (FFFG ), put a #11 cap on and test fired it = NO BOOM!! Cleaned again, flushed water through the nipple drum, it trickled out of the muzzel. Tried again, no boom. Took barrel off of stock, used liquid wrench X 24hrs around where drum screws into barrel. Now here's the problem I CANNOT get the drum to turn. The drum is starting to deform at the very top, where it is squared off. Now I have some Kroil ( super-duper break everything free ) coming - Should I, A. wait for the Kroil and try again,
B. Take the thing to a gunsmith ( at outrageous $ ) or C. Shoot my self ( with a different gun of course ). As a aside, why do the folks who sell nipple drum, breech plugs, etc say " should be installed by a gunsmith ". Is it that difficult to screw in a drum or breech plug or is it just P>Y>B ( protect your butt legalese ) ?

P.S. - I would like to keep the same size drum and nipple.Although I'm not sure what the drum size is, the nipple is a CVA 6.1 mm. any ideas on the drum size - thread wise that is??

Thanks- Muzzie

P.P.S - I forgot, if I do screw it up, how difficult whould it be to convert the barrel to a flintlock, if it could be done? :curse:

 

[musketman]

First off, of your choises A, B or C...
Never "C"

Do "A", and if all else fails, then "B"...

The nipple drum can be replaced, just don't strip the threads on the barrel itself... Oh, that would be bad...

If you convert to flintlock, I don't think the nipple drum hole will be where the flash hole is suppose to be located, so you may have the added expence of a breech plug along with the new lock...

Does the nipple drum have a cleaning port in it's side?

Maybe there is something blocking the path...

How about the caps and powder, are they still good?

Maybe the nipple drum was not the problem...

I would suggest trying to shoot it (just this one time) with black powder, just to see if it fires...

Keep us posted...

 

[crs1945]

Yes the drum has a cleaning port and it is clear.

The caps and powder are new.I am going to a gun show tomorrow and I will try to get some B.P and new caps just to be sure.

I have ordered a breech plug scraper and will try scraping the plug then running a solvent into the muzzel and let it sit overnight ( plug up the drom cleaning port ) then try flushing solvent and or water with a barrel flush kit ( also on order ).

Any thoughts about letting the end of the barrel (back end )sit in a can of kerosine overnight or even several days to try and loosen up the frozen drum. If the Kroil doesn"t arrive soon.

Thanks
Muzzie

 

Muzzie,.... Yore Jukar has the same "breech-plug/drum/nipple" and "breech'n-system" as CVA and Traditions!

WARNING!!...."NEVER attempt to remove the breech-plug from any of these spanish-made rifles"!! (the "paper-work" furnished with the rifle when it was new, came with this "warning".)

The reason for this WARNING is, because of the "way" they are "breeched",.... the plug is screwed into the barrel, then "counter-bored", followed by drill'n thru the "side" of the barrel (and counter-bored plug) until the side-hole intersects with the counter-bored chamber. This side-hole is then "tapped" for a drum (or, vent-liner)!!

If the drum (or, vent-liner) is removed, followed by an "attempt" to remove the breech-plug, it is "nearly IMPOSSIBLE" to re-install the breech-plug so thet the "THREADS" (of both barrel and breech-plug) line back up exactly "perfect".

Actualy I cain't think of a good "reason" to remove the breech-plug anyway!!

Musketman mentioned a "screw" in the side of the drum,... this is a "clean-out" screw. The threaded hole for this clean-out screw intersects with the counter-bored "powder chamber" in the breech-plug. By remove'n this clean-out screw, you should be able to run a wire into the powder-chamber insure'n thet this "path" is clear of old foul'n.

The counter-bored "powder chamber" also needs to be cleaned of old foul'n, with a ramrod and "tip" fashioned to fit it's smaller-than-bore-sized hole (much like a "patent breech").

Once everthin is "clear", yore rifle should go "BOOM"!! ::

BTW,.... how "good" is yore powder???

 

[crs1945]

Thanks rollingb. I'll just keep working on the drum and leave the breech plug alone.Where do you find this info on Jukar barrels. I would like to get ahold of some info.

Muzzie

 

Muzzie,.... I'm go'n from "memory" of shoot'n different muzzleloaders for more'n 30 years, in regards to the "WARNING"!! ::

Once you have everthin "clean and clear", I see no reason thet you cain't convert yore percussion to flintlock (if you can find a spanish-made "Maslin" lock somewhers)!!

You will have to use REAL blackpowder tho, if you convert to "flint" (or, at least use real blackpowder as a "primer" fer the artificial stuff)!!

 

[jrdavis]

check the length of the clean-out screw on the end of the drum....you might need to file off a thread or so !

 

[Zonie]

I would not try to remove the drum even if the nipple threads are worn. If they are not worn, there is no reason for removing it. Even if they are worn, there are oversize threaded nipples available.

The reason for my saying I would not remove the drum (to answer one of your quesions) is yes, a new drum must be fitted to the barrel so that when it is tight the nipple hole is in the correct place.
If the drum is solid (without the nipple hole) it takes some knowledge to accuratly locate where the nipple will need to be (relative to the hammer) and then to machine the hole and threads for the nipple.

Even if you cannot remove the "clean out screw" if you have removed the nipple you should be able to snake a pipe cleaner down thru the cross drilled hole that runs into the barrel bore (or counterbore as RB was describing).
Some pipe cleaners even have little wires in them making them useful for cleaning out this area.

If you can get a pipe cleaner down into the bore (or counterbore) there should be no reason for the gun to not fire (assuming that the hole in the nipple is not plugged).

You said you could get some water down thru the nipple into the bore but "some" may not be enough.
I would suggest you first, unscrew the nipple. Then place a cleaning patch on the cleaning jag (button) and fill the barrel with water. Then put the patch/jag into the barrel and push it rapidly down. You should get a jet of water out of the hole in the drum that would drown your neighbors cat at 15 feet! Try this several times before going to the next step.
If you get just a dribble or little trickle, dry the barrel by heating it over a gas stove (Colemans or propane will do).
When it has cooled, put on some safety glasses and dribble as much powder as you can get into the cross hole and the area where the nipple screws in. (Leave some room for the nipple to screw in).
Screw the nipple in at least 3 turns, cap it and fire it. That should blow out the obstruction. You might want to try this several times.
After this, try the patch/jag/water thing again, It should work correctly now.

As for converting this to a flintlock, I doubt that you could find a lock that would fit it.

 

'Zonie,.... Thanks fer bring'n up some of the things I fergot to mention!! Yore post is "right on tha money"!!

I'd like to add tho, thet (I'm go'n from memory agin) I "think" the Jukar has the same "Spanish Maslin lock" as CVA and Traditions uses!!

The Jukar, from what I remember, is "identical" to the CVA (2-piece stock) Kentucky Rifle!! Muzzie might be able to find one of the CVA Maslin locks, if'n he's serious 'bout the "conversion", in fact I think I seen 3 of'em offered "for sale" somewhers fer 'bout $20.00 @ awhile back (don't remember if they was percussion, or, flint).

 

[crs1945]

Thanks everyone. Great info. . I think I will concentrate on the breech plug area and the hole from the drum into the barrel to see if I can be sure that it is really clean and open. Kind of hard when you cannot see into it!! I will keep you all informed.

Muzzie

 

[Birddog6]

With any percussion, I pop a few caps off & with the muzzle pointed at a leaf or blade of grass to see if the chamber is open.
If the leaf moves you are clear & if not, then attack from that standpoint. I can tell by the sound of the cap going off if it is open.
Also get a different nipple for it that is more open like a Hot Shot or Uncle Mikes, several dif ones avail.
Be sure the cleanout screw is not partially blocking the nipple & be sure the nipple is not too deep into the drum & blocking itself off. (Most likely metric threads on that Jukar nipple)
Do NOT take the drum off as if you do you just as well use that barrel for a tomato stake & go on to the next rifle, as you will be past the more trouble than worth turning point.

Custom Muzzleloaders

 

[crs1945]

Tried your idea Zonie of putting h2o into the barrel and using two swabs ( to form a tight seal ) pushed the ramrod down the muzzel. H2O came out of the clean out hole in the drum without a problem! I'm beginning to think that the hole in the nipple might be too small. I have a new nipple with a larger hole coming along with a few other items. When I get it I will replace the old one and try again, this time with actual B.P. Will keep you all informed.

Muzzie

 

[tommy b]

When I get it I will replace the old one and try again, this time with actual B.P. Will keep you all informed.

Muzzie

I might suggest that you change one thing at a time if you want to find the cause of the problem. For example, change the nipple and use the same powder you've been using. If that cures it,you know the problem was the nipple. If it doesn't cure it, then change powder. This way you can tell what was causing the problem. I guess one of my hangups is that I like to know the reason something happens so that if I ever see the same problem again, I will know how to fix it without having to go through a sometimes extensive procedure.

 

[pistonslap]

Is the percussion cap firing? Sometimes the nipple gets mushroomed and the cap doesn't seat right and won't fire. No cap, no boom.

 

[Ohio Joe]

"pistonslap" brings up a good point. Now you would know if your cap was going off unless your deaf like me, or at least that's what my wife claims... Anyway, try RWS No.1075 #11 percussion caps. These are the hottest caps I know of on the market in a #11... I use them all the time on my percussion locks. It use to be that some of the caps on the market had a film of "paper" that would blow into the port of a nipple and cause it to misfire. Try the RWS's...

 

[crs1945]

Latest in the continuing saga .Latest problem, ordered a 6x1 CVA replacement nipple for the Jukar barrel ( orig. equipment as per CVA ). Doesn't fit, TOO SMALL. The previous owner must have enlarged the nipple hole and retapped it. So I says to myself xxyyoozzz222!!!!, why the heck don't I just enlarge the hole in the nipple that does fit. So out to the drill press and enlarge the hole. Back in, load a small charge of B.P into barrel, place a #11 cap on the nipple, out the door and FINALLY - BOOM!!! So now I have to get back on the phone and call Oct.Country ( I had ordered a flush kit with a 6x1mm nipple ). Good luck it was not shipped yet.So now when I get a chance, I can out to the range and try some loads out in this baby!!

Also to note. I have ordered a Kentucky, flintlock kit.

Muzzie :winking:

 

[Zonie]

muzzie: Be sure to wear your safety type shooting glasses. Because you enlarged the hole (I'm guessing to 1/16?) it may blow the cap off of the nipple rather violently.
I've seen guns which easily blew their hammer back to half-cock with just a moderate target load in them and it was usually caused by a enlarged nipple hole.
While blowing the hammer back a little is not dangerous, the cap fragments are.
NOTE: If it blows back to half cock, reduce the load so that it doesn't do that and continue shooting.
If it blows it back to full cock stop shooting and get a new nipple. It can destroy the lock by breaking the hammer if that happens and IMO shooting glasses are not designed to take large flying things like hammers.

I don't know if you own a micrometer or a verner style caliper, but as your nipple is not a standard metric size, if you can measure the outside diameter of the nipples threads you will know what the right size is. I would guess it is 1/4-28 from where I'm sitting. That is the next size up from a 6mm (.238 dia.).

 

Muzzie,.... I agree with everthin 'Zonie tolt'ya!!

And, if thet new CVA nipple is too small,... I'll bet the "original owner" probly re-tapped the nipple-hole to accept a "standard" 1/4x28 nipple long 'fore you got the rifle!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[crs1945]

Thanks for the advice Zonie. Yes I always wear shooting glasses, guns can be replaced, eyes cannot.The nipple is 1/4-28, I found my old gunsmith screw measuring card and that is what it measured out to. I wish I had found that darn thing BEFORE I got the new nipple but Hey they are only a couple of bucks.The hole I drilled is 1/16.The gun is only used for target shooting therfore no large loads in it.

Muzzie :winking:

 

[gordy]

rollingB: Those locks were percussion,They were on auction arms,the auction was "Dutch". He said there were over 20 Maslin CVA locks.I would have bid on them if they had been Flint. Muzzie:Follow the advice given here,all should work out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :applause: