Problems with Flint & Steel

[TDM]

Thanks! I did miss that the first time around.

My dad, who knew basic blacksmithing, told me they used mule hoof trimmings for case hardening, but I did not learn exactly how they did it. He grew up on a subsistence farm in Alabama, and I think they had a simple forge, an anvil, and some tools for basic blacksmithing required on the farm. I'm pretty sure he told me some things were case-hardened. Screwdrivers, for example. However, I don't know what types of iron and steel are capable of being case-hardened. I have no doubt they would have used a lot of recycled metal.

Thanks for the update!

Notchy Bob

Both my parents families are from Alabama, going back to 1800.

 

[Little Brother]

I can see that many have given some good advice. The only thing I'll add is that not all char is created equal. I've made piles of char cloth over the years but have had the best luck with making char punk wood. Same process. One thing I've learned is that the char needs to be absolutely black. If it's even a really dark gray, it's gonna have a hard time catching. Also, and I'm sure it was mentioned above, take the time to build a good nest. Good luck

 

[TDM]

I can see that many have given some good advice. The only thing I'll add is that not all char is created equal. I've made piles of char cloth over the years but have had the best luck with making char punk wood. Same process. One thing I've learned is that the char needs to be absolutely black. If it's even a really dark gray, it's gonna have a hard time catching. Also, and I'm sure it was mentioned above, take the time to build a good nest. Good luck

Thanks. I have a couple of bags of punk wood waiting to be charred. I ordered a small propane stove to use for that and to make more char cloth. I’ll have it in a day or so.

 

[pab1]

Nice work @TDM!

 

[Brokennock]

Since I’m getting some badly needed rain today I went ahead and fired up the forge. Last time I was home a watched a couple of videos and they were quenching the fire steel in water to get some extra hardness. Now I would never do that with a knife blade, oil only, but I figured to try it out on the two junk steels I have and I wanted to try my hand at making a steel from rebar and 1095 steel.

After I finished, I did a side by side comparison with my file steels on the same flint. The two junk steels remain junk steels, no sparks, nothing. They will disappear for good this time.
I had low expectations for the rebar since most rebar is mild steel, but it actually threw a few good sparks.
I’ve made a couple of knife blades with 1095 before, but never really worked it under the hammer. With my meager talents I found it difficult to work, but I was able to fold it in on itself and forge wield the handle. And, as I feared, even after letting it normalize a few hours before quenching, the strike face cracked in two places. Hot 1095 and water don’t mix. But, it still throws very good sparks as I hoped it would. Pretty much on par with the file steels which I’m so very happy with.

And yes, the 1095 striker is UGLY!
But I was able to easily catch a spark on char cloth with it. I’m going to try making another 1095 striker but with conventional oil quenching.

Good work. I appreciate the time and effort you put into experimenting and sharing what you found.

For what little it is worth,,,

I have gotten to really like the foresteel shape shown here, as opposed to the all too common knuckle duster style. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is a common period shape for English steels,,, or at least it is close to it. Most of the steels I carry/use are this style.

 

[TDM]

Good work. I appreciate the time and effort you put into experimenting and sharing what you found.

For what little it is worth,,,
View attachment 171628
I have gotten to really like the foresteel shape shown here, as opposed to the all too common knuckle duster style. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is a common period shape for English steels,,, or at least it is close to it. Most of the steels I carry/use are this style.

Thanks. I find the larger strikers easier to hold and control too. And I did get my knuckles dusted a number of times trying to make the other ones work!

 

[TDM]

Overall I wasn’t very pleased with what I made yesterday even though it was more experimental than anything else. But the left over piece of 1095 kept calling to me. I decided to cheat and draw out the shape of the striker and saw cut it so there would be minimal hammer work. I got the shape I wanted and cleaned it up. Then into the forge it went. Twisted in the curl and tapped the arm down a little. Went through a couple of normalizing cycles, got it up a little past critical temp and quenched it in preheated canola oil. Let it cool, cleaned it off, and file tested it. It was hard, but the file didn’t skate the surface as it should.
Took a good sharp piece of flint and gave it some wacks. NO Sparks!
I had no other choice but to try a water quench again. Put it back in the forge and back up to temperature. Then quenched it in warm water.
This time no cracks! It came out good and hard, no bite from the file test. And it throws great sparks. So I’m happy with it.

 

[pab1]

Well done @TDM! I like the whale shaped strikers.

 

[beardedhorse]

Quench your 1095 in hot olive oil. Water quench was used by Indian blacksmiths. Some water is brined. To experiment with water, dip and count dip-two-three and then pull it out and say air-two-three. Repeat the 3 second dip, 3 second airing until it cools. 1095, O-1 works fine for fire steels and knives, too. Nicholson Black Diamond files are good. Avoid case hardened cheap foreign files. Some high quality files from Sweden, Germany, England and Japan work.

 

[TDM]

I have my new small burner now. I think it’s going to work well for char cloth and punk wood char. Probably find some other uses too. I’ll tackle the punk wood soon.

 

[TDM]

Tried my hand at making Punk Wood Char today. Heeding advice given I bent a coat hanger to fit the inside of my can to give a little airspace at the bottom. I also burned the coating off the hanger before I started. And I tried not to overfill the can with punk wood. I was doing this in my outside shop which is well ventilated but I also tried doing what I saw on some YouTube videos where they lit the smoke coming out of the pin hole on fire to minimize the smoke and it will let you know when the cooking is complete. Seemed to work, but not necessary I would think. Let the can cool and made some downward hits with the flint on the striker held stationary over the can. Caught sparks after 2 or 3 hits, was very happy. Only thing is, I couldn’t kill the embers like I can with char cloth. Had a heck of a time saving my punk char! But I guess that’s a good thing. Now I have improvise a suitable container to keep it in.

 

[TDM]

I also found a second can to use for char cloth. Had a good, tight fitting lid. I punched a hole in the top and cooked to can to remove some metal polish residue that was in it. Also took the remaining piece of coat hanger and put it in the bottom. I had a good bit of under cooked cloth from a previous attempt so I used some of that to cook. It was cotton terry cloth. Used the same technique as the punk wood. The little propane cooker worked great and was way faster than I expected. I let the can cool and tried it out. Caught sparks again after 2 or 3 strikes. Very pleased.

 

[TDM]

I have another question I’d like help with. The punk wood I used was pine, it just happened to be the first downed tree I walked to and it felt correct. I also have big chunk of Willow punk that found while exploring the river last week. And within a short while I could gather some hardwood punk too.

Is there a best wood for punk?

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I have another question I’d like help with. The punk wood I used was pine, it just happened to be the first downed tree I walked to and it felt correct. I also have big chunk of Willow punk that found while exploring the river last week. And within a short while I could gather some hardwood punk too.

Is there a best wood for punk?

what is "punk" wood? Obviously my outdoor education is lacking!! LOL : )

 

[TDM]

what is "punk" wood? Obviously my outdoor education is lacking!! LOL : )

Well, let me regal you with my (very) new found knowledge as I once wondered the same! (Like 2 weeks ago)
My best definition is that as a dead tree decays it goes through many stages. Punk wood is the stage were you can rip a hunk off with your hands and it’s nice and light, but you can squeeze the fibers together with your fingers and it will spring back to shape when you release pressure. Just like a sponge. Before the punk stage the wood will be too hard and past the punk stage it will just fall apart under pressure.

 

[tenngun]

what is "punk" wood? Obviously my outdoor education is lacking!! LOL : )

Rotten wood. Find a tree fallen in the forest that is some years old you will see the sponge like stuff that you can crush to powder with finger thumb

 

[tenngun]

I have another question I’d like help with. The punk wood I used was pine, it just happened to be the first downed tree I walked to and it felt correct. I also have big chunk of Willow punk that found while exploring the river last week. And within a short while I could gather some hardwood punk too.

Is there a best wood for punk?

I THINK pines have enough pine tar in them to catch a spark well, oak and hickory burn very hot

 

[TDM]

I THINK pines have enough pine tar in them to catch a spark well, oak and hickory burn very hot

Thanks. I certainly have no complaints on the pine. I’ll gather up some oak and hickory too. Lord knows I’ve got plenty. Never knew what I was stepping over and around all these years.

 

[Brokennock]

Only thing is, I couldn’t kill the embers like I can with char cloth. Had a heck of a time saving my punk char!

This is part of what I like about it.
I feel like it is hotter than cloth and lasts longer. I keep mine in a tin and strike down into the tin, then I either put my tinder on top and blow, closing the tin when the tinder ignites and is moved to the kindling, or, I have a pair of ember tongs that I use to pick up the punk wood ember from the tin to transfer to the bird nest. If the piece of punk that took a spark is small enough, I'll just sacrifice it with the bird nest to the fire.

Ember tongs are very small tongs used to hold a coal to one's pipe for lighting.

 

[TDM]

This is part of what I like about it.
I feel like it is hotter than cloth and lasts longer. I keep mine in a tin and strike down into the tin, then I either put my tinder on top and blow, closing the tin when the tinder ignites and is moved to the kindling, or, I have a pair of ember tongs that I use to pick up the punk wood ember from the tin to transfer to the bird nest. If the piece of punk that took a spark is small enough, I'll just sacrifice it with the bird nest to the fire.

Ember tongs are very small tongs used to hold a coal to one's pipe for lighting.

Your sure right about the punk being hotter, burned my finger tips trying to squeeze it out! Unlike char cloth where a little pressure does the job. I definitely need to get another tight lid metal can to put it in for striking. Took me a few tries to switch to striking the flint down on the striker over the punk but I got the hang of it. Made another batch of pine punk and a batch of willow punk today. Luckily both lit well.