I've never really asked this but have only seen a couple of people's powder charges for what they killed deer with last season. I got my deer with my 33.5 in. kentucky rifle using 90 grains of pyrodex rs. It dropped the deer right in her tracks. But when I switched to black powder and am now using a really tight patch/ball combo I get quite a bit of recoil with 60 grains of 3f powder. What I want to ask is in this situation of wanting to kill deer with a prb, what would be a load that would kill deer out to 75 yards?
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Proper Hunting Load for .50 cal
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paulvallandigham
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I am shooting 75 grains of 2Fg powder in my 39" .50 caliber flintlock for hunting. You would reduce the 3Fg powder charge by 10% to get similar velocity and mid range trajectory. However, you have found out what most folks do when trying 3Fg for hunting loads: They kick more than if you shoot an equal velocity using 2Fg.
I also don't like that hooked butt plate on your stock, as it forces you to shoot that gun off your upper arm, rather than your shoulder. At your age, you are still growing, and those arms aren't heavy enough to take a lot of recoil. It might even be another year before your shoulder is big enough to take much recoil.
Read and follow my article about Handling Heavy Recoil, up under the Member Resources section on the index to this forum, under " Articles". It will help you until you grow into that gun, or decide to change that butt plate. :thumbsup:
I also don't like that hooked butt plate on your stock, as it forces you to shoot that gun off your upper arm, rather than your shoulder. At your age, you are still growing, and those arms aren't heavy enough to take a lot of recoil. It might even be another year before your shoulder is big enough to take much recoil.
Read and follow my article about Handling Heavy Recoil, up under the Member Resources section on the index to this forum, under " Articles". It will help you until you grow into that gun, or decide to change that butt plate. :thumbsup:
Little Wattsy
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I dont claim any "Facts" but I have always felt that 70+ grains oughta do it...At least when I start working up a hunting load I always start at 70 grains and work up to my best group which seems to usually be right at 90 grains. I would never really consider working down from there.....(Thats with Pyrodex RS)
Jason Lewis
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i agree with paul, when i had the same gun as a kid i used 90gr of 3F for hunting. that butt plate shape hurts, it wasn't all that comfortable to hold when bundled up in cold weather gear either.
Max load that shoots accurate out of your rifle...and one that you're comfortable with. I killed my first deer at 40 yards with 60gr of 2F and a .490 ball. Total pass-through from the side. So, if you can get her shooting 70-80gr of powder, you should feel comfortable with taking a deer out to the ranges you specified.
My TC loves 75grs of 2F under a tight 490 RB. I pretty much don't use any other load in that rifle.
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Sorry, but the word "proper" reminds me of English tea time, doilies and priss.
The right load is a rigged election between you and the gun, with the gun getting two votes to your one. I'd go with what the gun shoots best, or at least acceptably well at the ranges you will be shooting game.
I'm not the most sensitive guy around, but I don't like to get hurt by a gun either. I'm betting that if your current load is biting you, it's something about the architecture that isn't right for you. I'm shooting 80 grains of 3f Goex in my 50's, and while it's probably overkill (whatever that is) at 75 yards or less like I shoot, my guns really shoot it well. Funny thing is, it doesn't seem to recoil much at all out of my Lyman GPR or my Pedersoli Frontier, but the high comb on a TC just whacks the snot out of my prominent cheekbone with that load. I'd change stocks on a TC before I changed the load, though.
The right load is a rigged election between you and the gun, with the gun getting two votes to your one. I'd go with what the gun shoots best, or at least acceptably well at the ranges you will be shooting game.
I'm not the most sensitive guy around, but I don't like to get hurt by a gun either. I'm betting that if your current load is biting you, it's something about the architecture that isn't right for you. I'm shooting 80 grains of 3f Goex in my 50's, and while it's probably overkill (whatever that is) at 75 yards or less like I shoot, my guns really shoot it well. Funny thing is, it doesn't seem to recoil much at all out of my Lyman GPR or my Pedersoli Frontier, but the high comb on a TC just whacks the snot out of my prominent cheekbone with that load. I'd change stocks on a TC before I changed the load, though.
Little Wattsy
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BrownBear said:
"I'd change stocks on a TC before I changed the load, though"
Yep...Me too...and I did. :wink:
Hunting in the woods most of the time with the occasional opportunity for a shot down a logger's road, I just use about 3/4 of the published load data chart for .50cal PRB powder charges:
90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke prelubed wad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .490 ball
I've used cresent shaped butt plates on many muzzleloaders for a number of years now and they do not automatically cause problems at all because of their curve. They "can" cause a problem if they're mounted incorrectly...but that's not the fault of the butt plate...the curve itself does not automatically cause any problems.
Its sort of like saying "muzzles cause problems for a shooter"...they don't cause problems either...unless the shooter has the muzzle pointed towards himself when he fires the rifle :grin:
When a cresent shaped butt plate is mounted correctly with the toe down into the crease between the side and the arm pit, the only thing that contacts the shoulder is the meaty central part of curve, not the pointed ends.
90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke prelubed wad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .490 ball
I've used cresent shaped butt plates on many muzzleloaders for a number of years now and they do not automatically cause problems at all because of their curve. They "can" cause a problem if they're mounted incorrectly...but that's not the fault of the butt plate...the curve itself does not automatically cause any problems.
Its sort of like saying "muzzles cause problems for a shooter"...they don't cause problems either...unless the shooter has the muzzle pointed towards himself when he fires the rifle :grin:
When a cresent shaped butt plate is mounted correctly with the toe down into the crease between the side and the arm pit, the only thing that contacts the shoulder is the meaty central part of curve, not the pointed ends.
Maestro
Moderator
Again, it's not necessarily "proper", but my load of choice in my .50 rifle (42" bbl.) is:
70 gr. Swiss 2f
.54 felt wad
.490 rb patched
.018 ticking
I won't normally take a shot beyond 50-60 yards but here in PA I generally don't need to.
Re: felt recoil, as others have said, the architecture of the gun has a lot to do with it. I have had no problem with stout loads in my .50 rifle...
... or in my .75 fowler for that matter...
But my .62 fowler can be a real "pain in the cheek" due to the downswept French style stock...
70 gr. Swiss 2f
.54 felt wad
.490 rb patched
.018 ticking
I won't normally take a shot beyond 50-60 yards but here in PA I generally don't need to.
Re: felt recoil, as others have said, the architecture of the gun has a lot to do with it. I have had no problem with stout loads in my .50 rifle...
... or in my .75 fowler for that matter...
But my .62 fowler can be a real "pain in the cheek" due to the downswept French style stock...
longcruise
70 Cal.
It's surprising to see how little powder is really needed to do in a deer.
My TC with 28" barrel has always shot well with 70 grains of ff. In my early years of hunting, I used and killed deer with 90 grains but wanted a little more accuracy so went to 70 grains with excellent results shooting at 30 to 80 yards. Seventy has always been the "accuracy" load for that gun as well.
I killed one large mulie doe with 60 grains of ff and a .490 ball at about 50 or 60 yards. The lungs of that deer were devastated and she fell within 10 feet.
paulvallandigham
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I know of three reasons often given for ADDING MORE POWDER to a hunting load:
1. Better accuracy.
2. Flatter Trajectory.
3. deeper penetration.
I always recommend that shooters who intend to hunt game, do penetration testing of their loads, with some standard load or caliber of gun they have used, or know can take the game they intend to hunt. More powder does NOT give More penetration with a ROUND BALL, IMHO.
Flatter trajectory. With Iron sights, Most shooters simply cannot hold a fine enough "bead" or post on game out past 100 yds, to insure accurate placement of the ball. So, for RB use, in guns with Iron Sights, consider 100 yds. to be the average outside range. If you are shooting a smoothbore, then reduce that outside range down to 75-80 yards.
The increased velocity caused by adding more powder for a hunting load, AND, Zeroing the gun at 100 yds, rather than 50, or 75 yds, will cause a SLIGHT FLATTENING of the arc at Mid range. However, we are talking fractions of an inch. I know of no shooter who can consistently hold the difference in mid range trajectory on any rifle using iron sights, at the long range of 100 yds.
The Front Sight simply COVERS UP TOO MUCH of the Target, to take advantage of a few tenths of an inch in " flatter trajectory" of the heavier powder charges.
Finally, Accuracy: Most shooters cannot shoot enough all year around to be able to handle much recoil during hunting season. IF THEY ARE HONEST with themselves-- a big "If" for many of us------they will admit that its definitely harder to shoot a gun accurately that You KNOW is going to kick you badly, even during the concentration and excitement of the HUNT! NO, I don't recall ever feeling the recoil of my gun when taking a shot at game, no matter what the game, or the gun used. But, that is besides the point, IMHO. Your Brain knows, whether you are feeling that recoil consciously, or unconsciously.
I know of few Heavy powder charges that actually produce better groups shooting RBs from an iron sighted rifle, compared to the lighter loads used for paper target shooting.
I shoot 75 grains of 2Fg powder under my .50 cal. RB. I have test fired 80, 90, and 100 grains. The two higher amounts produced worse groups and then some. I found no difference between the groups I fired shooting 75, and 80 grain charges, so opted to follow my Frugal Genes to make my own ancestors proud of me, and chose the 75 grain powder charge. :rotf: The difference between 75 grains and 80 grains, with the gun zeroed at 100 yds, was less than .1" at mid-range.
I can't hold iron sights well enough at 100 yds, to take advantage of that .1" Flatter, Mid range trajectory.
I admit it.
If that makes me less a shooter, I will gladly go back to the end of the line where " I belong".
If I could hold Iron sights that well, I would be the National And World Champion ML Rifle shooter, that's for sure! :hatsoff:
1. Better accuracy.
2. Flatter Trajectory.
3. deeper penetration.
I always recommend that shooters who intend to hunt game, do penetration testing of their loads, with some standard load or caliber of gun they have used, or know can take the game they intend to hunt. More powder does NOT give More penetration with a ROUND BALL, IMHO.
Flatter trajectory. With Iron sights, Most shooters simply cannot hold a fine enough "bead" or post on game out past 100 yds, to insure accurate placement of the ball. So, for RB use, in guns with Iron Sights, consider 100 yds. to be the average outside range. If you are shooting a smoothbore, then reduce that outside range down to 75-80 yards.
The increased velocity caused by adding more powder for a hunting load, AND, Zeroing the gun at 100 yds, rather than 50, or 75 yds, will cause a SLIGHT FLATTENING of the arc at Mid range. However, we are talking fractions of an inch. I know of no shooter who can consistently hold the difference in mid range trajectory on any rifle using iron sights, at the long range of 100 yds.
The Front Sight simply COVERS UP TOO MUCH of the Target, to take advantage of a few tenths of an inch in " flatter trajectory" of the heavier powder charges.
Finally, Accuracy: Most shooters cannot shoot enough all year around to be able to handle much recoil during hunting season. IF THEY ARE HONEST with themselves-- a big "If" for many of us------they will admit that its definitely harder to shoot a gun accurately that You KNOW is going to kick you badly, even during the concentration and excitement of the HUNT! NO, I don't recall ever feeling the recoil of my gun when taking a shot at game, no matter what the game, or the gun used. But, that is besides the point, IMHO. Your Brain knows, whether you are feeling that recoil consciously, or unconsciously.
I know of few Heavy powder charges that actually produce better groups shooting RBs from an iron sighted rifle, compared to the lighter loads used for paper target shooting.
I shoot 75 grains of 2Fg powder under my .50 cal. RB. I have test fired 80, 90, and 100 grains. The two higher amounts produced worse groups and then some. I found no difference between the groups I fired shooting 75, and 80 grain charges, so opted to follow my Frugal Genes to make my own ancestors proud of me, and chose the 75 grain powder charge. :rotf: The difference between 75 grains and 80 grains, with the gun zeroed at 100 yds, was less than .1" at mid-range.
I can't hold iron sights well enough at 100 yds, to take advantage of that .1" Flatter, Mid range trajectory.
I admit it.
If that makes me less a shooter, I will gladly go back to the end of the line where " I belong".
If I could hold Iron sights that well, I would be the National And World Champion ML Rifle shooter, that's for sure! :hatsoff:
I don't believe the problem with that butt plate is that I am still growing becuause I am pretty much done. My arms can handle all that recoil. If they can't that's just sad since for sports I have to work out twice a day. I think this will be the last year that I will use my traditions kentucky as my starting "deer rifle." I am going to try to get a .54 gpr or trade rifle the year after. I figure I can definitely afford a new rifle since I got my kentucky really cheap for it being only 2 years old. Something I heard you mention before about 2f or 3f for traditions guns. I shot a shot of 2f grafs the other day and the gun went off just fine. Which do you think would work better?
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See how accurate 70 to 90 grains of 3F powder is. Use the best most accurate.
paulvallandigham
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Your rifle will tell you which powder it shoots better. :hmm: Read the spent patches, and READ YOUR CLEANING PATCHES. They will tell you which powder burns the best in the gun. :shocked2:
I've shot a few with my GPR FL. The closest was about 15 ft. has he passed directly under my tree stand. The farthest was about 100 yds. while I was still hunting (there was a convienent fence post I used for a rest) I never had to track one, usually recovered my flattened ball just inside the off side hide. My load? 55 gr. 3F & PRB. That is the load this gun shoots best. I Shoot the same load for competion.
Jon
Jon
Little Wattsy
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Swampy said:
Ditto! :thumbsup:
tnlonghunter
40 Cal.
Jon D said:
This is the same load I use, in my 38" barrel with .490 ball and .018 pillow ticking. It's enough to kill a deer, and I really limit myself to ranges of 75 yards or less unless I've got perfect conditions. Then, no more than 100 yards.
I used to use 75 gr. and tried higher loads, but I found that my rifle's sweet spot is at 55 gr. So, that's where she stays.
Before I got this Lymon, I hunted with my Navy Morse .45 caplock with a 405 gr hollow based Mini and 65 gr. 3F. This load zipped clear through whitetails and plowed a furrow in the dirt. I had to track a few then, but never very far.
Jon
Jon
The most important aspect is what load is best in your rifle. My .54 with a 36" barrel is happest with 60gr of 3F. Have killed 3 deer with it all complate pass through. The longest range was 75 yards. I try to take 50 yard or so shots, the limite is not the rifle it is me. The rifle is a lot better than I am.
