Punches for Cutting Round Patches

[BrownBear]

Lots of discussion recently and in the past about round versus square patches. Lots of ways to do both, too.

If anyone really wants round, I just ran across a source of round "arch" punches in an amazing array of sizes all the way up to 4 inches! Others may be aware of the source, but I wasn't. Prices are surprisingly low.

Check out Brettun Village Leather. Scroll down a ways on the linked page to see their offerings.

 

[longcruise]

Thanks for the link Brown Bear. I either cut at the muzzle or precut square and since starting square cut can't figure out why anybody bothers with round?! But.. each to his own.

Great link with lots of useful stuff for leather working and for cutting wads for BPC.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm a muzzlecutter too, but know that lots of folks prefer round.

As for the other stuff at the site.......ouch. Idle clicking on the internet is going to cost me this time!

 

[renovato]

You can also get a similar set from Harbor Freight. I bought a set to use for making wads.

 

[sundog]

I bought a cheap set of hole saws from Harbor Freight, I think they were $7.95.
I ground off the teeth and then sharpened the edge where the teeth were. Chuck um up in the drill press and cut 8 at a time out of folded wally world pillow ticking.
Works slick as fat through a duck.

 

[douglas duncan]

I started out using filed downed hole saw's also, then went to square much easier to cut and faster.

 

Since the general consensus seems to be that square patches are every bit as accurate as round and they are much easier to make, what is the reasoning behind making round patches?

 

[BrownBear]

Since the general consensus seems to be that square patches are every bit as accurate as round and they are much easier to make, what is the reasoning behind making round patches?

Not a clue. As a matter of fact, I don't even use precut patches. I'm a muzzle cutter, so I don't have a dog in any round versus square fights.

But I do know that folks like them and are always looking for an easy way to make em. I passed on the link for those that want em. Duzzn't mean you have to usem too.

 

[longcruise]

Since the general consensus seems to be that square patches are every bit as accurate as round and they are much easier to make, what is the reasoning behind making round patches?

Probably because so many patches both dry and pre lubed are marketed that way. New shooters usually start out with some precut commercial patches. When they decide to go to their own patch material, many seem to think they need to use round ones Go figger!

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Since the general consensus seems to be that square patches are every bit as accurate as round and they are much easier to make, what is the reasoning behind making round patches?

Probably because so many patches both dry and pre lubed are marketed that way. New shooters usually start out with some precut commercial patches. When they decide to go to their own patch material, many seem to think they need to use round ones Go figger!

Yup, ifn us bottom feeders ever got smart enough to figger out that square shoots every bit as accurate as round the industry may lose some income over the whole deal.
I can buy a yard of material for $2.50 for denim theys alot of patches in a yard close to or over a thousand, last time I bought patches they wuz $3.15 a hundred.

 

[omarick1948]

Since the general consensus seems to be that square patches are every bit as accurate as round and they are much easier to make, what is the reasoning behind making round patches?

:hmm: ....Different strokes for different folks?

 

Since the general consensus seems to be that square patches are every bit as accurate as round and they are much easier to make, what is the reasoning behind making round patches?

:hmm: ....Different strokes for different folks?

I was hoping for something more insightful from those using round patches. :wink:

 

[Musketeer]

It may just be an aesthetic thing too. Round ball, round bore, round patch. It just looks more fitting to some. :hmm: Note also that when you see a pic of a 19th century high end English gun in a presentation box with all the goodies thrown in they often included a punch like the ones linked to above for cutting round patches for that specific gun. So it isn't like there's not an historical precedent for round patches. :hmm: In any case, I tend to go with square patches myself, but I think round ones look nicer.

 

[BrownBear]

The reason I first tried cutting at the bore was my preference for leaving a tight jag on the rod and using that to seat balls. But it tends to grab any excess patching when I withdraw the rod. And in my book, that's a NASTY situation, considering the potential for unseating the ball a little in the process.

In my limited experience with them, square patches only seemed to make the matter worse. The extra patching at the corners was really good at getting tangled with the jag. Kinda like using a WAY oversized round patch.

Doesn't sort out you question completely because I'm not sure if anyone else is oddball enough to use a jag the way I do. But it's one very good reason for round you can add to your list.

 

[longcruise]

I was hoping for something more insightful from those using round patches.

Peple What shoots round patches ain't got no insight! :wink:

Note also that when you see a pic of a 19th century high end English gun in a presentation box with all the goodies thrown in they often included a punch like the ones linked to above for cutting round patches for that specific gun.

Walll, thar ya have it! rond patches is for bottom feeders an Englishman! :haha:

The reason I first tried cutting at the bore was my preference for leaving a tight jag on the rod and using that to seat balls. But it tends to grab any excess patching when I withdraw the rod.

I do the same thing, but my square patches are big enough that I can short start the ball so that the patch material is under the long arm of the short starter and thus packed on top of the ball. Then when the long rod pushes it down it's on top of the patch. When I cut at the muzzle my ball is at least a 1/4 inch deeper than the bore so the patch also ends up on top of the ball.

 

[Zonie]

I was hoping for something more insightful from those using round patches.
==============================
OK. You asked for it.
Hey everyone, he asked for it so don't go pounding on my head. :grin:

From a mathematical standpoint a patch that is cut off exactly flush with the muzzle would be round.

Picture a spherical ball that is exactly the bore size inserted into the barrel so that the very top of it is exactly flush with the face of the muzzle.

Now, if you start at a point that is exactly at the bottom of the ball and measure from there to a point where the side of the ball is contacting the barrel the answer will be the circumference of the ball divided by 4.

Now, measuring from this contact point up to the face of the muzzle will be equal to exactly 1/2 of the balls diameter.

Adding these two measurements together we arrive at an answer. Lets call this answer "R".

Because the ball is a sphere the distance from the exact bottom of the ball to the point where it contacts the bore, and the distance from the contact point of the ball to the face of the muzzle will be the same at any place we do the measuring.

If we choose some spot on the patch that will always be exactly at the bottom of the ball when we load the patched ball this will be the center of a circle and that circles radius is the answer we got for the sum of our earlier measurements and called "R".
This is the reason that a theoretically designed patch is round.

Now, in the world of reality, when we load a patched round ball we know the patch, which started out flat, won't really form itself evenly as it is started into the bore. It tends to bunch up and wrinkle.
These wrinkles are the reason that if you cut the patch at the face of the muzzle and then pull it back out and look at it, it will be rather mis-shapen having flat and round edges.

Hope this answers your question so that you can quit worrying about it and get out there and rake up the leaves like your wife told you to do. :rotf:

 

[Musketeer]

Walll, thar ya have it! rond patches is for bottom feeders an Englishman! :haha:

Yep. And then there's bottom feeding Englishmen who use oval patches just to throw folks off. :shocked2: :blah:

 

[bob308]

my match rifle has a round muzzle that is truned with a 2 deg. concave. now i made a patch cutter that cuts patchs the dia. of the barrel. when i load i wet the patch and put it on the muzzle and it is centered about as close as it can be.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I was hoping for something more insightful from those using round patches.
==============================
OK. You asked for it.
Hey everyone, he asked for it so don't go pounding on my head. :grin:

From a mathematical standpoint a patch that is cut off exactly flush with the muzzle would be round.

Yep, it isn't round when cut at the muzzle. The patch material does not "mold" itself to the ball - it "folds" as it is pushed into the muzzle. This is what a patch looks like when cut at the muzzle or in a loading block.

 

[RADeO]

All right everybody, here is the real benefit of round versus square patches, ECONOMY. That's right, economy. If you prelube your patches, you can more economically lube round ones than square ones since a square patch has more area to saturate than a round one of the same size. In addition, you can use the scraps of material left over from cutting round patches to make char cloth. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: