Pure lead necessary?

[walter estabrook]

This may be heresy, but is pure lead really critical for RB`s used in smoothbores, especially if only wadded? I use pure for CW minie`s & M/Lrevolvers necessarily, but do I really need in my Bess? I have many#`s of reange scrap & lead of unknown provenance I`d like to use up.What do the experts say?

 

[Hawkeye]

I guess it depends, I use whatever I can get in my smoothebore and have had zero problems. You may get opinions that different weights and diameters from unknown alloys will change the point of impact, but we are talking about smothe bore muskets not rifles. So go ahead and shoot the wheel weights or whatever in the smoothe bore and save the pure lead for minnies and balls for percussion revolvers and perhaps even your rifles. YMMV.

Hawkeye

 

[Rebel]

I shoot wheel weight lead in mine with no problem. I even will use it in rifles if it is all i have.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

Since my days of 50&5x :rotf: scores are over and a deer's lungs can't tell between a 3" or 4" group I use what ever lead I can get. Absolute purity is of secondary concern, particularly in a smoothbore.

Snow

 

[rabjr]

This may be heresy, but is pure lead really critical for RB`s used in smoothbores, especially if only wadded? I use pure for CW minie`s & M/Lrevolvers necessarily, but do I really need in my Bess? I have many#`s of reange scrap & lead of unknown provenance I`d like to use up.What do the experts say?

NO.

 

[ohio ramrod]

For rifles I use the purest I can get. Especially for hollow based mini's. But for the smooth bore any thing goes from WW to linotype lead.

 

[Toomuch_36]

In a word, what Swampy said.....NO. Even in a rifle a patched ball never comes in contact (metal-to-metal) with the inside of the bore.

I would place more emphasis on consistancy as the difference in weight can cause "flyers". If you use pure lead for competition (keep using it), if you use wheel weights (stick with this). For hunting or plinking the variance would be small enough to cause no concern.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[Deadeye]

I have lead so I've never tried any alloys but I know alloys cast larger so do you use a thinner patch or do you find the alloys load OK with your regular patch.
Deadeye

 

[redwing]

Deadeye must be hot down your way. Soo true before shoving any ball made from WWs or Range lead down the bore with a tight patch do so with care. I have seen these go down and stick in the bore. They can be real tough to remove.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would be reluctant to recommend alloy lead balls, particularly loaded "bare" down the barrel, on top of wadding. Alloy lead balls are notorious for not being round, and being larger in diameter than pure lead balls cast from the same mold.

The first shot may work OK, but any bare lead ball is going to rub lead streaks on the walls of the bore, and subsequent loadings are likely to get stuck part way down the barrel, when the hard lead ball hits some of the lead streaks.

You have fewer problems using alloy lead balls if they CAST SMALL enough to be used with patching. Then if they vary in diameter, you can use a smaller patch. They are still difficult to pull out of the barrel with a ball pulling wood screw shaped jag, however, compared to doing the same with a soft, pure lead ball.

Don't use Just ANY ALLOY lead. Understand that adding tin, antimony, and sometimes Zinc, to lead is going to make a larger diameter ball, and many molds won't cast truly round balls. Stick to a known alloy for consistent diameter, and you should be all right. :thumbsup:

 

[Rebel]

I have been ok with the same patch. The difference in size is only a couple thousanths.

 

[jethro224]

Paul,
Why would the alloy balls not cast round? I don't understand.

Lately I have been using wheel weight lead to cast .715 balls to shoot in my Bess. They weigh 535 grains compared to 550 grains with pure lead. I have not miced them to know the difference in diameter, but they load with about the same effort in the same patch. My POI is a few inches higher with the WW balls, but that is a good thing with this particular gun.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Its been my experience that alloy leads don't come out round, from molds that will cast round pure lead balls. I am not sure of the reason, other than the variations in the alloy mix. It may be that I need to stir the lead on the pot frequently, instead of leaving it alone, once I have skimmed the dross off the top. It was very discouraging. The lead used was scrap picked out of the backstop at the range. It included lead from the core of copper jacketed bullets, WWs, probably some pure lead, as well as alloy pistol and rifle bullets others had made. The Balls were HARD.

I used the balls in a pistol, anyway, because even enlarged, they were still small enough to require a fabric patch around them. Accuracy at pistol range( 25 yds.) was as good as I could hold that .62 cal. smoothbore.

Using pure lead for casting balls, even for a smoothbore, takes a lot of variables out of the process. To answer the poster's questions, however, I agree with everyone else that there is NO NEED to use pure lead for the balls.

My concern is related to using unknown alloys in lead, that make the lead even harder than old WWs. For instance, when the same scrap lead was cast into pistol bullets, we had the same problems with size, and hardness. Using a bullet sizing die, some bullets went down easily, and others required 3 times the force to get them through the sizing die.

I didn't have a lead hardness tester at the time, but the experience with the sizing die told us that there was problem with the mix. There was also a wider variation in the weight of both balls and bullets cast from the scrap unknown alloy mix lead. When we started to use ONLY wheel weights, for instance, our weight variations were much smaller, and the bullets run through the die required more consistent force.

We stopped scrounging lead from the backstop at the range as a result of these experiences. Later, I scrounged pure lead from the RR ties used to back the targets at my MLer club, since we were all shooting either pure lead, or darn close to pure lead. Modern rifles were not allowed on the range.

 

[rabjr]

To no one inparticular, I ansered his question concerning "Smoothbore loads". He did state he used pure lead in minie's and pistols bullets.

I've never used a pure lead .715 ball in my smoothie but it is extremely accurate and has proved its self in the woods more than once. So, I'm convinced, used in a smoothbore, one does not need to use pure lead. :v

 

[oldarmy]

I don't think you need pure lead in a smooth bore..WHY??
As far are pure lead casting a "better round ball" :rotf:
The reason you want pure lead is so it loads easier, because it's softer and forms quicker to the lands and groves..
Which of course are not an issue with a smooth bore :hmm:
I use alloy in all my smoothies.

 

[wildeagle]

Not posted toward anyone in particular, but maybe one of you fellows could explain. Why would the dia. be different, does an alloy swell and force the mold apart? I would think that if pure lead is poured into a mold and then alloy poured into the same mold they would occupy the same space and there for be the same size. I can see them weighing different because of different densities, but if they are occupying the same space would they not be the same size. Maybe as they cool they expand, ???? just asking, it made me go hhhhhmmmm :hmm:

 

[backgear]

Upon cooling pure lead shrinks more than alloy. The differences, depending on alloy, will not likely be more than .002" if that much.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Backgear explains it well. :thumbsup: Its not the change within the mold, but how the ball continues to cool outside the mold. :hatsoff:

.002", and in some calibers, even more than that, does not sound like much, but in smoothbores, where you don't have the grooves of rifling to give you some place for the lead to move to, you increase the chance of getting a ball stuck in the barrel. :cursing: It only has to happen ONE time to you for you to curse the day you thought you could do "Just as well" shooting alloy, or "junk" lead balls, without a cloth patch, in your smoothbore. If you are in the habit of NOT cleaning the bore between shots, it will happen SOONER than later to you.

 

[wildeagle]

thanks, I knew someone could stop the humming in my head :shocked2:

 

[HWH]

I haven't cast balls for years but this is what I remember. If one wants pure lead starting with wheelweights or other common alloys is not a problem. The primary alloying agents such as tin and antimony will float to the top of the melt if undisturbed and they can be skimmed off. That's why we flux and stir when casting modern bullets, to keep the desired alloy well mixed. You probably won't end up with exactly 100% lead but it will be a lot closer than the alloy you started with.