puzzling loading problem

[Rifleman1776]

Yesterday, at my club shoot, I had a strange loading problem. Being an old-timer I know everything and how to avoid problems. Right? :wink: Guess not. I had a puzzler. First, I'll say up front I am an unabashed admirer of Dutch Scholz and his 'system'. I use his 'dry lube' method on ticking patching quite often. Yesterday, I was shooting my wife's TC Seneca half-breed with Douglas .45 cal. barrel and Redfield Olympic sights. In the past we often put .457 balls down this tube for accuracy. Yesterday, I was using .445 balls. They loaded very hard. I swab between every shot. After about ten shots one load went down the length of my short starter (about 3 1/2") and I couldn't get it any further. I had an unbreakable ramrod and no amount of my strength would make it move. Finally I borrowed a long starter (about 8") from another shooter and banged it down with a mallet. I then switched to a beeswax/peanut oil lubed ticking for the rest of the day and didn't have another problem. (except for my shooting :redface: ) Why the stuck ball in a semi-clean barrel is the puzzlement.

 

[Keb]

Maybe a bigger ball got mixed in with the .445's?

 

[BrownBear]

Unless you changed ball or lead sources or the humidity was unusual one way or the other, I'm going to guess something else based on recent experience of my own.

I was getting similar symptoms from a new (new to me) 58 cal rifle, though further down the bore. I could get off three shots before I started getting hard fouling and increasing difficulty seating, along with a noticeable hard crud ring right above where the ball sat on top of the powder. Changing lubes didn't seem to help. I've never experienced anything like that with Goex and TOW Mink Oil Grease with ticking. It was much like I used to get with Pyrodex and Bore Butter.

The bore on the newish gun looked stellar, but after the second range session with such results, I got suspicious. After normal cleaning, I used brake pad cleaner on patches to really clean the bore, just as I do with the packing grease that comes in new Lyman barrels.

Hey, presto. The issue was resolved. I loaded and fired 30 shots on my next range session using Mink Oil Grease with no loading difficulty or crud ring.

All I can figure is that in spite of cleaning there was some kind of thin buildup in the bore resulting from the previous owner's choice of components and cleaning methods, even though the bore at the muzzle looked spotless when I got it.

Give it a good cleaning with brake pad cleaner on patches and see if the issue doesn't resolve itself. If that doesn't work, I'm clueless.

 

[Birddog6]

I agree, ball dia. difference would be my first guess as well.... Second guess would be that patch didn't get lubed, for some reason or another.

Hard to see a few thousands dif. with the naked eye. Easily could have an oddball in the bunch.

Keith Lisle

 

[necchi]

I'm a faithfull follower of Brother Dutch myself.

The smaller ball is going to allow more crud to build up, the tighter PRB combo would wipe the bore more when loaded.
Then,
, I've had that happen when I somehow got distracted or my thoughts where on something else and forgot too swab,, :idunno:

 

[ohio ramrod]

Three possible reasons come to mind. One, a larger ball (already mentioned). And two, double patching, it is possible you had two patches stuck together. :idunno: :idunno: And third something entirely different. As they say, " when you have eliminated every thing possible, the only thing left is the impossible!" :idunno:

 

[contenderfan]

I'm a faithfull follower of Brother Dutch myself.

The smaller ball is going to allow more crud to build up, the tighter PRB combo would wipe the bore more when loaded.
Then,
, I've had that happen when I somehow got distracted or my thoughts where on something else and forgot too swab,, :idunno:

Another Dutch disciple here....and I agree with Necchi...

The smaller diameter ball with the same patch gave a reduced diameter, which lead to an increase in the amount of fouling. Unless you compensate with more wiping solution, you will not be getting as much of that fouling out and it will build up to the point that you will not be able to load.
Once I find the right combo of ball, patch thickness/lube amount, and charge using Dutchs' system...I stick with it for that rifle. Vary the components and you will get different results than what your used to.

 

[Rifleman1776]

My ball came out of a container of balls I cast fresh that week. No mixing with older stock.
I swabed between every shot. My swab solution is spit.
Don't think I double patched. Possible but not likely. And, a .445 ball in that barrel (Douglas XX) isn't "small". The .457 is a cram and ram fit that is ridikulus tight.
I'm thinking/guessing the "dry" lube is just plain way too dry. This batch of patching, about a full yard worth, was made up several years ago. To the touch it feels kinda lubed but might be too dry. Dunno fer sure though. Still puzzled.
I owe Dutch a call, he is always a delight to talk with. I'm going to ask him what he thinks.

 

[LRB]

I think you have answered your own question. Not enough lube. Lonehunter shoots with me often, and i see him fighting with the "Dutch" patches, but when he uses critter greased patches, he has much less trouble loading. I am not too impressed with the "Dutch" system. I use a bear grease/beeswax mix, and don't need to swab the bore but every 15 shots or so, and that only because of concerns of not seating the ball firmly on the powder.

 

[lonehunter]

True, But they seem to be more accurate than the critter grease patches.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Sometimes a bit of crud doesn't allow the mold to close all the way and you get an oversize ball.

 

[russecv58]

i ran into this problem myself today, happened about 8" down the bore. the ball stopped right there and man that sucker wouldnt budge at all. so i had to drive the ball home with my range rod and "improvised hammer" (also known as a Craftsman staple gun). spit patch didnt take it out, almost felt like the barrel got ringed. so i scrubed it with a bronze brush follwed with an alcohol patch, good as new. this was with my standard load of 3F Goex, .490 ball, pillow tick patch, lubed with lard. the only thing i could figure is that my patches were too dry and werent as saturated as they usually are. go figure