Pyrodex in Flintlock?

[Zonie]

It seems, Hodgdon has changed the information they used to have on their web site.

I would swear it wasn't over 3 months ago that I visited their site and found a whole page of information about loading their Pyrodex brand powder in muzzleloaders.

It covered the usual safety aspects and it made a very large point out of the fact that Pyrodex is to be measured by using a dip or hand held volumetric powder measure that is calibrated for black powder.

In other words, use a powder measure the same as you would if you were loading black powder.
It also explained that Pyrodex weighs 30% less per cc than real black powder so don't weigh out 70 grains weight of it on a scale to equal a 70 grain load of black powder.

More to the point when it comes to the subject of this topic, the same instructions clearly pointed out that Pyrodex would not work in a flintlock all by itself.
It recommended putting a 5 to 10 grain load of real black powder down the barrel and then follow it up with a load of Pyrodex, reduced by 5 or 10 grains to allow for the real black powder "starter" charge.

All of this information is now GONE.
No where I looked did Hodgdons web site give any information about using their loose Pyrodex in a muzzleloader. Nada.

The new site also has a disclaimer saying Hodgdon is not responsible for any accident of any kind to anyone if major problems happen.

Hopefully they will see the errors of their ways caused by removing all of this valuable information before someone is maimed or killed by their powder.

IMO, by removing the information they are opening the gates for countless lawsuits.

Lets see..... Lawsuits will need lawyers. Hodgdon lawyers need work. Hmmmmmm :hmm:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Doesn't Hodgon now own Goex?

 

[Bearkiller]

Yes.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

actually, I think part of the law liability problem has been brought about by the internet and misleading posts by ignorant people leading the equally ignorant with their easy button unmentionable guns. "I shot a deer at 580 yards with one shot with my brand x super stainless 209 Magnum from Whupbutt company using 10 50 grain pellets of nuclear hydrogen powder and a 340 grain Congolese Elephant skinner clear red plasti-tipped sabot." So some idiot pours a half pound of loose Whupbutt down his percussion or flinter with no regard for whether his gun is as strong, and suddenly he's at the Pearly Gates with St Peter deciding whether such stupidity is a reason to deny entry. And of course, his range buddies all want to see the widow get paid, so the truth changes to "I watched him carefully pour out a 30 grain charge" And low and behold, 30 grains was among the suggested charges from the powder's web site.

It has been a while, but I once regularly checked the federal liability cases against CVA, and the stories in the law suits about what blew up firearms was, putting it kindly, creative fiction.

A few years ago, I left a range because the idiot next to me had some off brand in-line and was loading 6 pellets of something and then flinching from the recoil and blaming the lack of accuracy on "not enough propellant" When I suggested that may not be safe, I was told to "Shut the XXXX up" and mind my own business." I simply packed and left. I heard two weeks later that an in-line barrel had cracked open along the scope screws. Don't know if it was the same day or same twit.

Too many shooters do not realize the limitations of their guns, or the possibility of work hardening and a host of other possible problems. The Popeye syndrome of "if a little is good, more must be better" method of loading is dangerous beyond most newbies' comprehension.

It is to the point that I cringe when some one posts a thread like, "I just got a 50 caliber muzzle loader, what charge should I use?" And then the in-line turkey's chime in with their false bravado exaggerations, with no regard for whether it is a paper thin Belgian made twist barrel gun from the 1950's or even a non-shooter repligun.

We have too many folks battling hunting and shooting sports now. Every accident, nut job shooting, or gang banger robbery adds to their ammunition against the outdoor sports. We don't need uneducated folks blowing them selves up because they do not know what they are doing.
Sorry for the rant.

 

[Okie Hog]

From the Pyrodex instructions:

All charges of Triple Seven or Pyrodex should be measured by VOLUME not weight. A simple, adjustable blackpowder measure is the correct tool for this job. All loads listed in this brochure are measured by VOLUME.

http://www.pyrodex.com/loading.html

 

[coloradoclyde]

We have too many folks battling hunting and shooting sports now. Every accident, nut job shooting, or gang banger robbery adds to their ammunition against the outdoor sports. We don't need uneducated folks blowing them selves up because they do not know what they are doing.
Sorry for the rant.

:thumbsup: ...The image we project shapes public opinion....Overzealous individuals think they are having fun, But!...Whenever guns are mentioned in the news, or politicians mention the 2nd amendment or gun rights, it's like taking a hammer and chisel to that pillar of freedom.....Slowly chipping away at it, one tiny piece at a time....
Every gun owner has a responsibility... as well as freedom.

 

[rdstrain49]

Zimm, you can always tell when Bubba is on the range simply by their mating call "Hey Y'all watch this". Time to take cover.

 

[Zonie]

Thanks for the link Okie.
That is the one I was looking for.

It is interesting that the Hodgdon site doesn't provide a link to the "pyrodex.com" site though as it does show the Hodgdon logo on the sheet.
Maybe "pyrodex.com" copied the sheet before Hodgdon deleted it?

Anyway, thanks again.
It does prove that at one time Hodgdon did (or still does?) recommend using a 5 grain, black powder, "starter" charge under the Pyrodex load in a flintlock.

 

[Okie Hog]

You are welcome.

The makers of substitute powders sometimes put out incomplete, and inconsistent information concerning their products.

 

[rdstrain49]

If you can find one, Hodgdon's Data Manual No. 24 has a wealth of information regarding Pyrodex. It includes a statement referring to Pyrodex, "not suitable for use in flintlocks".

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'm always skeptical about Hodgon's data...Although it wasn't pyrodex related, I have seen Hodgon publish incorrect data in the past. My standing rule is to always cross reference Hodgon's data.

 

[Billnpatti]

This has probably been asked a dozen times but here goes. Can you use a bp substitute as long as you use real pb to prime with?

While it is possible to load duplex loads in order to make substitute powders work in a flintlock, I am of the opinion....and it is just my personal opinion, buying any substitute powder to use in a flintlock is like buying a football bat or some basketball cleats....it just doesn't make much sense. If you can get the black powder to make the duplex loads why not buy enough to use as your full load? But, like I said, it is just my opinion, the opinion of an old fart....for whatever that is worth.

 

[coloradoclyde]

If you can get the black powder to make the duplex loads why not buy enough to use as your full load? But, like I said, it is just my opinion, the opinion of an old fart....for whatever that is worth.

Exactly!... :thumbsup:

People have enough trouble dry balling, forgetting to stow their ramrods or just breaking them, losing patches, stuck ramrods, etc., etc.....
Why complicate loading even further by using two powders....

 

[skyhigh315]

Hi,

I recently started using Pyrodex in a Pedersoli Pennsylvania .54. 10 grains of PB followed by 60 grains of RS Pyro. 4F in the pan. Not a single FTF so far!

EDIT: This post should have said. "10 grains of BP" meaning Black Powder.
I left the original statement as it is because so many members have responded to it.

The bottom line is, NEVER use a smokeless powder of any kind in any amount in a muzzleloader.

Zonie
March 25, 2018

 

[Black Hand]

Why complicate loading even further by using two powders....

Especially when there is no advantage to be gained.

 

[azmntman]

10 gr of pb? did you mean bp?

10 gr Black Powder will do it. Not sure I have heard of pb. Unless you mean "P" pyrodex which should not work :idunno:

 

[tenngun]

I have a bit of pyrodex and have loaded it in all my flinter for better then ten years. At the rate I use it it will take another ten to use it up, I’ve never had the slightest problem. 20 grains of three f under 45 grains in volume of pyrodex ( stress on volume here) it shoots just the same as 65 grains of three f all black.

 

[azmntman]

Yes, me too. Only I always just used 10 gr 3f goex. Still wondering what pb is? Typo?

 

[coloradoclyde]

I don't know why people think pyrodex works in a flintlock when it doesn't... :youcrazy:
Black powder works......Try the pyrodex without the black powder..... :haha:

 

[Bo T]

pb=peanut butter.