Pyrodex Powder

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I've shot most of the substitutes....Lots of pryodex. 777, Black MZ.....It only lends credence to my opinions on real black powder (1st choice)...But, I'll take anything over nothing....

If they came out with a new powder tomorrow, I would probably try it.... :wink:
 
Mooman76 said:
Sounds like when someone told me that urinal cakes had a warning that they cause cancer. I told him not to eat them. :rotf:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Yup.. When I was in 4th grade the class brainiac showed us all an actual scientific report that proved hot dogs cause cancer..

Bottom line use common sense and don't be stupid if you can help it; and you will be fine
 
Adui said:
Mooman76 said:
Sounds like when someone told me that urinal cakes had a warning that they cause cancer. I told him not to eat them. :rotf:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Yup.. When I was in 4th grade the class brainiac showed us all an actual scientific report that proved hot dogs cause cancer..

Bottom line use common sense and don't be stupid if you can help it; and you will be fine

Well of course hot dogs are deadly....They killed all the animals that are in them didn't they?... :haha:
 
I learned to shoot flint from an old gent who had a family collection of original flintlocks. I asked him about the type of powder he used & he said: "black powder". He had "casks" of powder handed down throughout generations along with the rifle & horn collection. He estimated the powder was from the 1850's & it worked like new. I built a horn & he filled it for me. I found the horn packed away a few years ago & used it for my flint GPR, Deerstalker, and a couple of cap rifles. Near as I could tell it was 3F.

I use BP in all my flint rifles and Fusils, but for cap & ball revolvers and the cap rifles, I usually use Pyrodex. Especially in the C&B pistols, Pyrodex performs with the same excellent accuracy as real BP and Sportsmans Warehouse is just across town. Thunderstick Trading Co. in Tucson is the closest BP source, and is about a 300 mile roundtrip drive. Since my family is no longer in Tucson, I don't visit there much anymore.

I've never had any issues with Pyrodex. Corrosive is corrosive & I always clean everything before sundown of the same day I've fired it. Residual corrosion/red rust is a result of incomplete cleaning, or waiting too long after shooting.
 
The only advantage I see to Pyrodex is it's available. It works pretty good in cap locks, I don't have anything against it. Since I have a couple of flints, I bit the bullet and paid through the nose for Goex. Does it work better? Undoubtedly in a flint gun (or so I've read)but in a cap gun Pyrodex works fine. It's just as nasty as bp and requires the same amount of maintenance, so I no longer use it at all. I don't know about the others; I have a pound of 777 but have never torched off a cap lock with it. I've seen "elitism" ruin primitive archery and would hate to see the same principal ruining bp shooting, so I say shoot what makes you happy...and don't worry too much about authenticity. Unless you want to be authentic: your choice.
 
I only have flint rifles so it's black for me. I don't know if it's true or not but I have read/heard that subs decline in potency as they age and that's not an issue with black powder.

Sub's are where things are headed and until someone develops something that works in a flinter it would be wise to stock a little black away. It won't get cheaper as we go on and maybe much harder to get as well. Then on top of all that is the issue of lead as a projectile legislation.

My only exposure to Triple 7 in a flinter was a guy that wanted to shoot it and was in no way going to change his mind. He was new to flinting and couldn't get the gun to fire very well. They asked me if I would help and I did get it to fire with black in the pan and 7 in the bore. It shot well too; but needed the black in the pan to fire.

Black is available here in Pa at about 30 bucks a pound so it costs about 40 cents a shot. I keep a supply back incase it gets hard to get and buy locally when I finish a can. I know subs will work in the barrel with a little black down the tube and in the pan so if I have to go to subs I know it will work. If I shot cap guns I would probably use the best sub I could get.
 
if you have a Bass Pro shop near you then you should be able to get real Goex Black Powder.

The Bass Pro store in OK City does not carry black powder. They say the fire marshall will not allow the stuff in their store.
 
You've hit the nail on the head. Storage restrictions have made it uneconomical for shops where I live to store BP.

About subs declining in power, I'm not so sure. I bought a bottle of Pyrodex Cartridge about thirty years ago for a rolling block. Never got around to using it. The dumb clerks at the store were curious as to what it looked like, so ripped a hole in the paper seal beneath the cap. Been stored since in a cool, dry place. Last summer, I poured a small bit onto a piece of foil and lit it with a bbq lighter. Went poof with authority. Thinking of trying it in a Zouave.
 
I read the SDS sheet Clyde, all that tells me is that you probably should stop eating the stuff.
 
The SDS I have for Pyrodex says this about it:

Section VI. HEALTH HAZARD DATA
Route(s) of Entry: Inhalation?: Yes Skin?: Yes Ingestion?: Yes
Health Hazards (acute and Chronic): TLV unknown for ingestion of dust, Acute oral LD50 in rats is calculated to be 4.0 [g/kg body weight].
Carcinogenicity: No NTP? No IARC? No OSHA regulated?: No
Signs and Symptoms of Exposure: Burning or itching of the eye, nose, or skin; shortness of breath.
Medical Conditions Generally Aggravated by Exposure: Some people may be unusually sensitive to the product.
Emergency and First Aid Procedures: Remove patient from exposure, and if skin contact, wash affected area with copious amounts of water.

The SDS for T7 says the same thing.

I guess a few folks are allergic to it.
Most people shouldn't breath its dust or eat it.

Beyond that, it doesn't look any more dangerous than a pizza from the local store.

A bit of digging says a oral LD50 of 3000 to 5000 is "slightly toxic"

4.0 g/kg is 4000 mg/kg.

That means a 170 pound man would have to eat 77.13 kg X 4 grams = 308 grams. 308 grams equals 0.679 pounds so he would be eating over half a bottle of Pyrodex before he would see any "slightly toxic" effects.
 
The toxicity reference was for Black MZ not pyrodex....It's all moot anyway...Shoot whatever makes you happy. :v

P.S.
Don't tell anyone but pyrodex always gave me better accuracy than BP.
 
My father says this.

Every man has his own little sack of poop to carry around.

That does not mean family but it could mean the stresses being the head of it, a good mate, a good dad, a good employee, a good son and managing our wants, wants of the family vs needs. Each man has has to manage his little sack in his own way.

Terms like elitist, purists BP snobs.....those who play dress up have been used in this thread. There has been a little, " working class hero" vs wealthy BP elitist thing going on.

All I'll say about my personal life is, I have had my fair share of uncertainty, of difficulties. Some very scary. Stress .... the weight of the world. On the other hand when it's all boiled down I have been blessed as well.

Black Powder stuff is just a small part of my world. I advocate the use of black powder over pyrodex and recommend it to all my friends. Personally I think it's worth it to get it.
Here's why.

Potassium Perchlorate. Pyrodex is 30 percent PP.
Perchorates were used since the early 1800s in percussion cap formulas. Later they were used in center fire primers.

If you notice most old percussion rifles, they will show lock plate surfaces rusted away, heavy corrosion on the breech many even having the wood eaten away at the lock panel. This is due to the corrosive nature of those primers. Some of these rifles have decent bores from good up keep but they still show damage around the lock where concentrations of Perchorates were greater.

Original flintlocks do not show this damage around the lock. Ones that have damage there, were at one time percussion and converted back.

In summary the damage associated with 19th Century black powder corrosion was primarily caused by the primers. The caps.

When perchlorates break down from combustion, they turn to table salt.

Pyrodex marketing......

In the late 70s through the 80s Pyrodex was marketed directly and indirectly as a improved modern substitute of blackpowder. Some writers went so far as to say excessive cleaning was unnecessary as it fouled like smokeless. "Does not corrode like Blackpowder" was even on the can. Now this is a play on words. That is very true. It is much much worse.

There is a lot of irony here.
1st The corrosion associated with black power was really due to the primers...caps.
2nd The "modern improvent" uses as a main ingredient the very substances that promoted corrosion in original BP arms.

So Pyrodex is in reality the bad Ju-Ju of corrosion that people think blackpowder is.

My father's Renegade....
My father bought a TC Renegade back in 1979. Before the Great Recession of 2008+ the late 70s early 80s were tough economic times. That Renegade was kind of special. In 3rd grade I even drew a "Pilgrim" using a Renegade and wrote a story for the class with the Pilgrim shooting a turkey for the Thanksgiving poster. :idunno:

Anyway, my father started with BP and switched to Pyrodex. He cleaned his gun like he always had, besides this stuff does not corrode like BP, right? As a hunter you may know about the fouling shot or fluffing the barrel. The rifle would stay loaded for a hunt with a slightly fouled bore. Afterwards it was cleaned.
For a time my father did not hunt and the Renegade was put away for a few seasons. By that time I was in to BP pretty heavily and he had me try to clean up that rifle. It was put away clean but the bore went south in the gun cabinet. He did not clean it good enough.
It was used for a few more years, now it has a Green Mountain Barrel.
My father is not alone, just take a look at all the TC re-bore and re-barrel threads.

The use of Pyrodex.....

Pyrodex shooters need to know what they are up against. Like I said the fouling is pretty much table salt. To have longevity in a barrel, in my opinion it needs to be cleaned after every session immediately. No fluff shots, no hunting with fouled bores for a day or days, the cleaning session should include a pump out with soap and water. This means unpinning a longrifle every time. After the cleaning session the rifle should be checked a day later and periodically after that.

On my flint longrifle, I brush the bore and use patches moistened with soap and water until the patches run clean then I oil. If I used Pyrodex I would unpin the barrel and pump it out.

If you use Pyrodex you have to clean it like a fanatic. This means rechecking regularly.
 
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