Pyrodex RS (FF equivalent) in a revolver

[gnappi]

I've been shooting my 50 caliber CVA BP rifle since the 80's and early on with pyrodex RS, and P later on, I actually never used black powder. That powder is long gone but in a purchase of a reloading press I acquired three pounds of RS that the seller just threw into the deal.

Has anyone use RS (FF) in a revolver? I read it's OK but may lose some velocity and may be hard to ignite but I can deal with those issues but I figured input from a muzzleloading forum can't hurt.

 

[Smokerr]

See the post below yours on that very subject!

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/ff-in-a-six-gun.176116/#post-2549350

 

[CaptainKirk]

Yes, I have used RS in a .44 cal revolver when I ran out of P at the range...
A little felt recoil loss, no difference noted on paper at 25 yards. There was no chrono available so it may have been all in my head.

 

[SwampBilly]

I have used it over the years and I didn't notice any appreciable difference in shooting but I don't have a chronograph.

But I think if anything it actually fouls more than true black powder. So definitely don't expect cleaner results

 

[gnappi]

I've had pretty good luck with Pyrodex and I used it exclusively and never used black. Once on a range outing with friends we all shot patched ball and I swabbed very infrequently while they were swabbing regularly with BP.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Pyrodex makes very corrosive fouling upon firing. The fouling is not as heavy as the carbon based fouling generated from real black powder. That's perhaps the best attribute of Pyrodex that the fouling is not heavy and there is often little need to clean the rifle while shooting at the range. There is great need to clean the rifle following the end of the range session. That perchlorate fouling starts the rusting process much sooner than black powder fouling.

Both Pyrodex P and RS have the higher ignition temperature. Both are more difficult to ignite than black powder, but can be ignited with a sufficiently hot percussion cap. Both grades should work in a pistol. Loads should be measured in drains by volume.

 

[OldNo7]

Pyrodex makes very corrosive fouling upon firing. The fouling is not as heavy as the carbon based fouling generated from real black powder. That's perhaps the best attribute of Pyrodex that the fouling is not heavy and there is often little need to clean the rifle while shooting at the range.

Well, we may have to agree to disagree...

I've heard that for years, but my experience is 180 degrees opposite. I've shot Pyrodex P in my Stainless Old Army for many decades, and still do; but the only time I've ever had a speck of rusting on the nipples or in the chambers -- after following the same cleaning routine as always -- is the one time* that I used real black powder.

I can't say it ever happened again -- as I've never used real BP since!

Old No7

 

[Smokerr]

Put this in the FWIW area, but I got the Pyro 2F (RS) the other day to try out.

In the ROA it ignited fine. I played with it with various loads and found it liked the .454 balls not the .457 as I got a semi decent group for the first time (2.5 inches at 15 yard which is not great but the target frames are not that wide and still determining POI for POA. ) Have to look up the velocity and can if you want.

In the Pietta NMA it was distinctly unhappy with delayed ignition and slow speeds. I won't try to shoot it in that gun again. It has the Slixshots Cones on it as well.

 

[Smokerr]

Pyrodex makes very corrosive fouling upon firing.

Also disagree. Have been shooting 3F for a couple months.

It should not corrode as its a modern made powder that has a different chemistry.

 

[Bad Karma]

Well, we may have to agree to disagree...

I've heard that for years, but my experience is 180 degrees opposite. I've shot Pyrodex P in my Stainless Old Army for many decades, and still do; but the only time I've ever had a speck of rusting on the nipples or in the chambers -- after following the same cleaning routine as always -- is the one time* that I used real black powder.

I can't say it ever happened again -- as I've never used real BP since!

Old No7

I’ve never had problems with Pyrodex other than occasionally slow ignition in very cold temperatures. I’ve heard this forever though so I probably clean more promptly with Pyrodex than with black. I will fairly often fire a couple rounds (blackpowder of course) from a revolver, reload those chambers, wipe the bore with a lightly oiled patch and go on about my business. None of my guns so treated show any signs of corrosion. I wouldn’t do that with Pyrodex.

 

[Smokerr]

I am reviewing my data from shooting. and the observations are:

1. The RS settles a heck of a lot if you tap the charge in the tube. The charge then depends on a lot more variables of just how much you got in and how it was handled. I am inclined to charge the cylinder out of the gun and then tap it to settle it so its consistent but you also have to think about some in your measure, settle it by tapping that and then adding more and settling. Better would be a small scale to weigh it.

2. I converted the measure to weighed grains on the two cylinders I loaded at home, 35 per measured came to 20 gr weight, but I also had not seen how much it settled. 35 per measure and settled came in at 26 grs.

3. The 20 gr load had around 600 fps average but as noted, in the NMA a major delay in the kaboom. The spread was not bad at 70 fps. Slixsprings Cones.

4. It did fine in the ROA.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Also disagree. Have been shooting 3F for a couple months.

It should not corrode as its a modern made powder that has a different chemistry.

It's the different chemistry that makes the fouling more corrosive. It's the prompt cleaning that stops the rusting.

My experience with Pyrodex happened about 40 years ago shortly after Pyrodex was introduced as a substitute for black powder. It was promoted as a less fouling powder than black and could be used in the same volume measures used for black powder. Pyrodex is less dense that black powder giving more shots per pound. Cleaning was the same as cleaning up after shooting black powder. My shooting experience was unsatisfactory with many hangfires in a Navy Arms "Reb" revolver. I would have expected hangfires in a straight though ignition. It was just not the powder for me. Other shooters I knew had the same experience.

I am a firm believer in continuous improvement. I hope that the makers of Pyrodex have improved the ignition timing. I have not heard of the reduction of the corrosive effects of the fouling. I am happy that prompt cleaning and lubricating adequately control corrosion.

I have and do recommend Pyrodex for those who are shooting cap locks and do not have access to real black powder.

 

[Smokerr]

I have had no corrosion issues with Pyrdoex (2 or 3F) and I don't clean the guns right after shooting.

I don't think RS is suited to some guns but its worth a try. The NMA does not like it but plenty of choices.

It works well in the ROA. I am just going to tap the Brass Measure as I get it part full and keep going so until its settled.

By doing so the RS should be reduced to a grain or two weight wise. In a musket it has less impact as there is percentage wise the larger powder charges are less of a variable.

So no issues with Pyro 3F in a revolver and RS you can think about in an NMA type.

So far the 777 3F is good and the Pryo 3F is good in all revolvers. I will use up the RS in the Ruger and get 3F Pyro.

I will probably buy 777 in 2F and see how that does. As I can't get BP, its is fine or maybe better, may not ever know with the BP issue up here (shipping an explosive aka BP has its issues and the Substitutes BPs can ship with regular smokeless powder per it being rated with smokeless and not BP.

So far neither powder or charges have an affect on general accuray. Going to a smaller ball size did in the Ruger.

 

[barnettshale]

I have had no corrosion issues with Pyrdoex (2 or 3F) and I don't clean the guns right after shooting.

I don't think RS is suited to some guns but its worth a try. The NMA does not like it but plenty of choices.

It works well in the ROA. I am just going to tap the Brass Measure as I get it part full and keep going so until its settled.

By doing so the RS should be reduced to a grain or two weight wise. In a musket it has less impact as there is percentage wise the larger powder charges are less of a variable.

So no issues with Pyro 3F in a revolver and RS you can think about in an NMA type.

So far the 777 3F is good and the Pryo 3F is good in all revolvers. I will use up the RS in the Ruger and get 3F Pyro.

I will probably buy 777 in 2F and see how that does. As I can't get BP, its is fine or maybe better, may not ever know with the BP issue up here (shipping an explosive aka BP has its issues and the Substitutes BPs can ship with regular smokeless powder per it being rated with smokeless and not BP.

So far neither powder or charges have an affect on general accuray. Going to a smaller ball size did in the Ruger.

Smokerr
I started with real BP while stationed in Germany in the 70’s. Available anywhere sporting goods sold on the shelf. Cardboard box with a brown paper bag inside. Don’t remember if was a kilo or 1/2 kilo. Came back to US. Was stationed at Fort Leonard Wood. Bought a ROA. Pyrodex was all that was available. They had just started up so it was the original formulation. Fired many rounds with no issues. Going forward ETS from the service returned to Texas. Corpus Christi area. Came up with a 58 cal Hawken type. Still buying and using Pyrodex as it was the most available product. Cleaned and protected my weapons religiously. Never an issue. I have used Pyrodex RS and P over the years. Shotgun, rifle, pistol and revolver. Killed doves, quail, hogs, deer and peccary (won’t let me type javelina) Now it does!!! Pyrodex contains Sulfer, black powder contains sulfer, Triple 7 does not. Plain hot water or hot soapy water was my go to. Hot barrel dries rapidly. Back before the internet I learned from reading books on black powder (Lyman’s). Even used 3 in 1 oil to lube and protect. Do what works for you. I know where you reside is a problem when it comes to supplies. Cost as well as restrictions. Good luck to you.

 

[AlexB]

Works great no problem at all.
I definitely prefer pyrodex in the revolvers over bp for a variety of reasons.
Never saw any of the horror story nonsense in a few hundred pounds worth so far.

 

[Whughett]

Also disagree. Have been shooting 3F for a couple months.

It should not corrode as its a modern made powder that has a different chemistry.

It’s my understanding that black powder fouling has no corrosive elements. The corrosion is moisture attracted by blacks fouling soot as it is hygroscopic in nature.
I’ve left revolvers for days into a week with no problem, the soot was heavily mixed with lubricants.

Rust occurs after cleaning when an inadequate amount of oil is applied to the cleaned metal, primarily in areas of no bluing such as revolver chambers and barrel interiors.

Just my own experience.

 

[Smokerr]

I cleaned the guns last night. So it was Wds morning I shot them, Friday night when I cleaned them. No issues at all. Our climate has less humidity that some, so I don't discount that as a factor.

I do oil them when done. Cleaning I use my Carbon Killer 2000 and it works a treat. I don't have any desire to soak in water as that gets into the guts and you will have rust there but that is my take and what I call the CK2K cleans them to a gleam.

Pretty much the same amount of crud in the ROA and Pietta NMA. All shot with Pyro RS and then the ROA with 777. I put wads in the ROA after the first shots. I ran 5 cylinders through it.

I don't see any advantage to the RS over the P, it fired in the ROA fine but not the NMA. Fun to test and I can use it up in the ROA and the Walker when it gets here (or try it in the Walker).

In the ROA using a Brass Measure, I got 878 avg for 6 shots (I have to watch the Chrono, sometimes it picks up the wads but in this case no wads.

For whatever reasons the ROA has good velocity with the RS, its 20 gr measured weight and not settled, as loose as I can pour it into the Brass Measure to duplicate the first loads done.

Settling and how to deal with that is the only issue in the ROA. Now I know how much it does I can settle as I load and get pretty consistent with it.

The Pietta sure did not like it though it shoots the P just fine. Its worth a test or check but from what I saw, I would not recommend it for a NMA type pistol.

 

[PastorB]

I shoot a lot of Pyro RS in my revolvers, never have had an issue with it. It is slightly less energetic than Pyro P or Swiss 3f, but hotter than Goex 3f, in revolvers. My data is based on many thousands of rounds over the chrono. In rifles Pyro RS lags far behind Pyro P. For target shooting, I always use Pyro RS in my revolvers, as I have a bunch of it I bought on clearance at Walmart over the years. Got jugs that are around 30 years old, and they go bang every time. Been shooting muzzleloaders since 1977, I have never had Pyro of either grade fail to fire when the cap went off. Can't say that for 777.

 

[Smokerr]

My comment references RS with the NMA type revolver. That has the angled cone which may be a factor. The Pietta NMA did not like it (Slixsprings cones). Not sure on the other one as it did not like the caps on it and range got crowded and I went off to shoot my target rifles.

The ROA on the other hand did fine (cones are straight).

There may be cone hole sizes involved but they seem to be pretty small if at all.

777 just does not like being compacted. I had some problems until I learned that.

I have some thoughts of RS over P or 777 as a kind of filler though I don't have a clue as to if that really helps or not. Filler gets the bullet closer to the barrel cone. I can play with the ROA as not much is going to bother it.

 

[AlexB]

Shoots no problem in our peitta 1858's in both 36 and 44.