R.E.A.L.bullet

[50cal.cliff]

From the Lee site:

R.E.A.L.bullet definition:

Rifling Engraved At Loading (REAL)
The driving bands are large enough to adequately engage the rifling when pushed into the muzzle, and thin enough to withstand maximum charges without stripping or gas cutting.
http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/black-powder-real-bullet-combo-molds/

My .50 shoots a .490 ball and pillow ticking about.18. However I have shot a .495 ball with the same ticking. That is an extremely hard load to push down with only a ramrod. If the barrel is fouled forget about it!

So my gut says that it would take a .495 R.E.A.L.bullet but I am not sure if that is going to be tight enough as a R.E.A.L.bullet does not use patching.

OK so we are now on the same page as to information. Here is my question.

How do you know what real bullet is the right size per you specific rifle?

Would it be better to slug the barrel and then measure the slug?

I would like to at least try a R.E.A.L.bullet but hate to buy something that is going to be the wrong size!

 

[necchi]

The only choice in 50 cal is the 250grn or 320grn, which boils down to a long one or the short one. Diameter is the same for both.
They fit well in some rifles and not so well in others.
Some guys have found if it's loose in their gun that a cigerette paper wrapped around will do the trick,,
others will use a few layers of Liquid Alox,, :idunno:
Molds are actually cheap enough and easy to sell if your not happy with'm

 

[Semisane]

You may be a bit confused here Cliff. Slugging your barrel will give you the land to land diameter of your barrel, and the groove depth, but will accomplish nothing with regards to the REALs. There are no options for different diameter REALs. You get a choice of different weights in each caliber. But they are all the same diameter.

I've had mixed success with REALs. They seem to be very particular as to powder charge. Some of my guns shoot them quite well with moderate charges. None shoot them well with heavy charges. Also, I can get very good accuracy out to 50 yards but have never gotten them to shoot better than four inch groups at 100. I've never hunted with them, but they are fun plinking bullets.

 

[MSW]

for whatever it's worth, i was given a dew of these some time ago and tried them in a .50 cal flinter. they didn't pattern as well as PRB so i went back to the ball (even though my twist is 1:48)

 

[mooman76]

The bands on the REAL are tapered for easier loading. The top band measures .517 if that helps you out.

 

[nkbj]

And, just to complicate things a bit, all REAL molds don't cast the same diameters as the next one. There really isn't an option beyond getting a mold and finding out how to best make it work in your rifle.

 

[50cal.cliff]

You may be a bit confused here Cliff. Slugging your barrel will give you the land to land diameter of your barrel, and the groove depth, but will accomplish nothing with regards to the REALs. There are no options for different diameter REALs. You get a choice of different weights in each caliber. But they are all the same diameter.

I've had mixed success with REALs. They seem to be very particular as to powder charge. Some of my guns shoot them quite well with moderate charges. None shoot them well with heavy charges. Also, I can get very good accuracy out to 50 yards but have never gotten them to shoot better than four inch groups at 100. I've never hunted with them, but they are fun plinking bullets.

I have been a bit confused all my life! :shocked2: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

And rightly said, I do seem to be a bit confused.

I assumed that R.E.A.L. bullets were cast like a round ball. Size specific in other words.

So if there is no difference in the size (diameter)it looks like there would be a concern for the R.E.A.L. bullet sliding off the powder if the barrel were tipped down. :shocked2: :nono:

R.E.A.L. bullet, I mean the idea is just like the definition.

Rifling Engraved At Loading (REAL)
The driving bands are large enough to adequately engage the rifling when pushed into the muzzle, and thin enough to withstand maximum charges without stripping or gas cutting.

Let me ask it this way what would be the actual diameter of a .50 cal?

For my rifle it would require the R.E.A.L. bullet being better than .495 in diameter at the skirt or I don't believe it would actually engage the rifling!!!!!

After learning all this information I am not sure I even want to try them after all! :hmm:
I have never tried them I like the RB in my rifle! :shake: :idunno:

 

[necchi]

a concern for the R.E.A.L. bullet sliding off the powder if the barrel were tipped down.

And that's just why I sold my molds.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I have never had a problem with bullets coming off the powder with any of my TC Hawken rifles. My TC 50 cal loads real hard with the Hornady great plains bullets, but is a tack driver with them. I feel the problem of bullets coming off the powder is only a problem with rifles with loose barrels.

 

[nkbj]

While we're talking about REAL's, anybody ever use a piece of greased bed sheet like a patch on the first (bottom) ring, pop it into the muzzle and trim it with the patch knife before seating it the rest of the way? I started to try that once upon a time as an alternative to a punched over powder card and just never got back to it.

 

[tomme boy]

If you need a mold made, get ahold of Tom at accurate molds. He can make just about anything you want. Tell him what your barrel measures and he will make it to fit whatever diameter you want.

Link

 

[50cal.cliff]

I have kind of let this thread lay. After the talk about the chance of the bullet moving off the powder it kind of soured the idea too me!

However I had a thought this morning! :idunno: I know before anyone says anything that is dangerous! :rotf:

Has anyone ever tried a wad over top of R.E.A. L. bullet to keep the bullet tight on the powder?

Or would that even work, :hmm: just a thought, any feedback on the wad idea!

 

[Sperit de bois]

Had a CVA Hawken in 50 cal,never could keep a slug/REAL down the barrel.First time I noticed it the slug was hanging about half way out the muzzle.You could tip the rifle up and down and the slug would travel up and down the barrel.Went to PRB and left it that way.Don't know if the very cold weather had anything to do with it,a real snot freezer,metal shrinking or not,,but why chance it.
Loaded fine, felt good but never trusted it after that.

 

[Dphar]

From the Lee site:

R.E.A.L.bullet definition:

Rifling Engraved At Loading (REAL)
The driving bands are large enough to adequately engage the rifling when pushed into the muzzle, and thin enough to withstand maximum charges without stripping or gas cutting.
http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/black-powder-real-bullet-combo-molds/

My .50 shoots a .490 ball and pillow ticking about.18. However I have shot a .495 ball with the same ticking. That is an extremely hard load to push down with only a ramrod. If the barrel is fouled forget about it!

So my gut says that it would take a .495 R.E.A.L.bullet but I am not sure if that is going to be tight enough as a R.E.A.L.bullet does not use patching.

OK so we are now on the same page as to information. Here is my question.

How do you know what real bullet is the right size per you specific rifle?

Would it be better to slug the barrel and then measure the slug?

I would like to at least try a R.E.A.L.bullet but hate to buy something that is going to be the wrong size!

If its hard to push down you either are using a high friction patch lube or the barrel is rough.
Probably the latter.
I shoot a .495 and a .015-.018 (depending on how tight I squeeze it and load it (in several different barrels) even with high friction lubes with a wooden rod.
Once the ball/patch is started in the bore is SIZED. While it has some friction its not that tight.
However, if the bore is rough it will load hard. If the bore is rough it will hold the fouling after a shot and load even harder.
Try some common lard for patch lube. Just smear a layer on the bore side of the patch. Pure Neatfoot oil (read label carefully) is no basically lard oil and this will work to soak patched in and usually loads pretty slick.
If the bore is rough you may get leading with the real bullet.

Dan

 

[Billnpatti]

Unless you have an odd size barrel, it will handle the REAL bullet and keep it on the powder just fine. I have tried therm in one of my .45 cal. rifles and in two of my .50 cal. rifles. The .45 has a 1:60 twist rate and it shot the REAL just fine. Not quite as accurate as a PRB but within "minute of deer". One of my .50s was a T/C Hawken and it shot the REAL about as well as a PRB. It, has a 1:48 twist rate. My custom plains rifle has a 1:60 twist rate and it would not shoot the heavier REAL bullets but would shoot the lighter ones pretty well. Still within minute of deer. One thing I discovered, it shoud have been obvious to me, is that most rifles with twist rates of 1:48 or slower only like the lighter (shorter) REAL bullets. The obvious answer is that the shorter REAL bullets have an aspect ratio of nearly 1 meaninig that the length is almost the same as the diameter. You could call them square bullets. Round balls have an aspect ratio of exactly 1 so the shorter REAL bullets perform similarly to and stabilize similarly to a PRB. Therefore, they will work better in a rifle that is designed to shoot PRBs. The longer bullets need to spin faster in order to be stabilized and, therefore, need a faster twist rate like those found in the in-line rifles.

When I shoot REAL bullets, I use an over powder wad that I punch out of either dense 100% wool felt (Duro-Felt) or 5 oz leather. I lube my wads with Ballistol. My bullet lube is one that I make using bear grease mixed with bees wax and a dab of Murphy's Oil Soap. It is a thick heavy lube that fills the bullet grooves and sticks to the bullet even in hot weather. Things like Bore Butter will work in cold weather but if it gets very warm out, the stuff gets too runny.

As for using a wad over your bullet as insurance against the bullet moving off the powder, I see no reason why that wouldn't work just fine. Order some 1/8 inch hard felt from a company called Duro-Felt (they are online) and a punch from a man on this forum who goes by the name of Ohio Ramrod. You can find him by clicking on the "Members" tab on this forum and searching for Ohio Ramrod. He will make you a custom size punch for an extremely reasonble price. An easy way to lube your wads is to take one of the whole sheets of felt and butter it with your lube of choice. Then put it into your microwave for a few seconds to melt the lube into the felt. Let it cool and then punch out your wads. A good source for leather, if you want to try it, is to go to a saddle maker and ask to buy some of his scrap 5 to 6 ounce leather. Some will just give it to you and some will sell it for very little. I have never tried anything but Ballistol on leather wads. I just put them into a small jar such as one that pimintos come in, pour in some Ballistol and let them sit and absorbe it. Once they have sat for a day or so, I remove them, pour the excess Ballistol back into the bottle and pat the wads dry with paper towels and they are ready to go.

 

[50cal.cliff]

All right just to clarify here the first time I tried a .495 ball in my .50 the rifle was basically new. So yes it did have some roughness to the lands.

After being shot for a while I have tried the .495 ball and while definitely harder to load than the .490 ball the .495 is do-able!

My .50 is 1:48 twist and shoots a RB with great accuracy. Using the same pillow ticking patch which is about.18 the only difference I have see nowdays is the .495 is harder to push down and it seems to have a little more kick to it when you touch the ole gal off. I have always figured that was because the .495 is probably getting a tighter seal!

Now back to the REAL bullet. I was originally under the impression that the REAL bullet was cast for size like a RB. Now that I know they are sized by caliber I think I will get some just to try it out.
I will do my own experiment to see how easy it is for the REAL bullet to back off the powder. That scenario concerns me for obvious reasons!
I do appreciate all the info that has been generated by this thread!

 

[BrownBear]

I will do my own experiment to see how easy it is for the REAL bullet to back off the powder.

Now you're talking. I have the molds in all the weights in 50, 54, and 58 caliber, and I've dinked with the REALs in half a dozen or so rifles in each caliber. So far none have shown any tendency to move off the powder.

But here's the kicker. My experience doesn't prove a thing about the next barrel to come down the road. Just like, a guy saying because the REAL moved in his gun, it will move in ALL guns.

A couple of things I've noted in my experience with REALs:

They need to be cast well, and that can be a booger until your mold and lead temps are on track.

And, most of the time, the things seem to shoot a whole lot better with a lubed felt wad under them.

Still haven't taken any game with them, but a couple of buds use them all the time with great results.

 

[phoenix511]

On the Lee REAL 320 gr bullet, I've had good results in a 50cal GM 1/48" barrel, using a waxed felt over-powder wad, 60grs 3Fg ... discovered more powder made recoil greater than I wanted to endure ... your results may vary!

But, and thus far in this thread I don't see anyone mentioning the lead alloy being used. Most BP bullets designed to be used bare need to be 99% lead to seat easily and engage the rifling after firing. Wheel weights, linotype, battery plates, and such contain too much tin and are very hard to seat. My REAL bullet engage slightly with hand pressure, a smack with a short starter, then load smoothly with the ramrod.

Never tried it but I suspect REAL bullets cast from a harder alloy will not shot well, in addition to being hard to load.

 

[BrownBear]

Never tried it but I suspect REAL bullets cast from a harder alloy will not shot well, in addition to being hard to load.

Dunno about the shooting, but I mistakenly cast some with wheelweights. Couldn't even start them by hand, so I have no idea how they shoot. Right now they're on the bottom of the Gulf of Alaska, because I recast them as halibut weights and they're long gone. Good riddance!

 

[mooman76]

I've never had a problem with REALs being loose to the point they would come off the powder and I've used them in at least a dz different guns. I have cast with a harder alloy because that's what I had. They shot ok but I really had to smack them good to get down the barrel. Not something you want to do all day. The lead I used was range lead. Not quite as hard a WWs but harder than pure. Depends on the gun too. Some say they go in easy and some say hard just depending on their gun. I believe some aren't getting good fill out on the mould because they should drop close to .517 on the top band. That's what I get.