Ram Rod Hole drifted up to barrel channel

[Staggerwing]

Back in December I started a new build. I have done two kit builds and decided to try my hand at a blank. I'm building a left hand Isaac Haines style rifle. This is my first time inletting the barrel and ram rod channel. Of course I had to get a swamped barrel for my first one! That went pretty well. The ram rod channel went well. Yesterday I decided it was time to drill the ram rod hole. The channel was nice and level, I had squared off where the drill was going to enter. I made two bearing blocks. I drilled a half inch at a time, backing the bit out to clean out the hole. I had no indication anything was wrong. Seemed to be going well. I finished drilling, turned the gun over, took the barrel out and right in the very corner of the breech area, slightly to the right side, was a 1/4" slot where the bit just barely broke through. I drilled a hole or two and verified the path which the ram rod hole went up through the web of wood between the barrel channel and where the ram rod hole should be. I thought maybe it missed where the front lock bolt will go but I don't think so.
I've done some searching on here and I'm referenceing Peter Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County. I just thought I'd reach out to see what you folks recommend. My plans as of now are to remove the bottom of the barrel channel as far back as I need to, glue a piece of hickory ram rod in the region where the drill bit strayed, create a channel for the drill bit to follow and then glue a piece back in the barrel channel, with the ram rod in the hole (waxed up), and reinlet the barrel. Thoughts?

 

[PathfinderNC]

i never even tried such a thing but a thought came to mind: since you will be opening up the ramrod channel via the barrel channel, could you carve a correct ramrod hole, put in a ramrod with necessary precautions and glue in a long shim to close it up? It's kinda like cheating but I won't tell

 

[Phil Coffins]

If the barrel was in the right place and the ramrod hole came up into it I would cut the bottom of the center flat in the barrel channel out and cut the ramrod channel deeper. Then fit a piece of wood into the bottom of the barrel channel to close it.
Pathfinder posted while I typed and is saying the same thing as I’m trying to say.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I haven't done this either but would go pathfinders route rather then try to redrill the hole. Some M/L companies route out the ramrod hole via the barrel channel, people who don't like a long hole in the barrel channel fit in a patch to have a solid bottom on the barrel channel.

Another thing you can do is make a scraper and lower your ramrod channel to give you room for a lock bolt, I have done this. I upended the end of a ramrod drill with a ball peen hammer, I used a 5/16 drill for a 3/8" hole and scraped the side that needed to be removed. My little scraper cut faster that I thought it would.

 

[deerstalkert]

am in the same position as the OP with my last build, My whatzit. i am going to try Erics scraper . i don't have to contend with the front lock bolt though. only one bolt in the plate.
i discovered the errant travel before i cut through. even made a long 1/8 inch drill to pilot it. didn't work.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I did sharpen the burr and padded the entry hole to get the maximum pressure on the side I wanted to scrape. In my case the pr-ecarver cut a bowed ramrod channel that had my ramrod hitting the side of the channel in the fore tock. My ramrod would not go in the hole, after about 15 minutes of scraping the ramrod went in with ease.

 

[Staggerwing]

i never even tried such a thing but a thought came to mind: since you will be opening up the ramrod channel via the barrel channel, could you carve a correct ramrod hole, put in a ramrod with necessary precautions and glue in a long shim to close it up? It's kinda like cheating but I won't tell

Yes. I agree. I doubt I will have to drill much if any at all. I should be able to make the channel from inside the barrel channel and work my way out.

 

[TommyG]

Had this happen on my second build. I cut maybe a 6" long area out on the barrel channel bottom, made a 3/8" radius bent scraper out of a worn out spade bit, scraped the tail end deeper, just enough to lower the rod to sneak a 6-32 front lock bolt thru. Then made a wood plate to fit the slot and glued that in place. The plus side is you now have a web thickness that you can control to give you a nicely rounded lower forestock.

 

[Staggerwing]

Had this happen on my second build. I cut maybe a 6" long area out on the barrel channel bottom, made a 3/8" radius bent scraper out of a worn out spade bit, scraped the tail end deeper, just enough to lower the rod to sneak a 6-32 front lock bolt thru. Then made a wood plate to fit the slot and glued that in place. The plus side is you now have a web thickness that you can control to give you a nicely rounded lower forestock.

Did you fill any of the errant hole or just let the wood plate fill in the majority of it?

 

[TommyG]

No filling. I put a bit of a lead/taper on the front of the plate so it acts as a ramp to gently guide your RR downward. Basically you end up with a "U" shaped hole with a flat top for the last 6" or so of the RR hole.

 

[flashpoint]

I have no idea what any of you guys are talking about

 

[ohio ramrod]

After having a drilled ramrod hole drift side ways, I started putting mine in with a ball end mill through the barrel channel and then plugging the slot. Perfect alignment and the plug is hidden under the barrel.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Staggerwing,
That happens to me quite a bit because I prefer swamped barrels with a lot of flare at the breech and, depending on my objectives, I usually want the web of wood between the barrel channel and ramrod groove as thin as possible. On almost all of my guns the forward lock bolt breaks a little into the barrel channel (requiring a shallow groove in the barrel) or the bolt touches the end of the ramrod putting a little pressure on it. These things are basically part of the design. So on my guns, a little deviation upward when drilling the ramrod hole invariably means it breaks into the barrel channel. My response, first I chuckle a bit, shake my head and say "oh well".


As others recommended, I cutout the bottom panel of the barrel channel for a short way. Next, I use a round burr the diameter of the ramrod in a Dremel tool and have at it. Saw dust flies, the Dremel whines and I go at it like a demon dentist doing a root canal as I deepen the hole in the stock until the ramrod will clear the forward lock bolt and the rear barrel lug won't hit the ramrod. However, I do none of that until I've consulted my drawings, which I do for almost all guns, to make sure I have enough stock under the ramrod hole. Drawings at the beginning prevent tears later.

After deepening the ramrod hole, I cut a piece of matching wood that will nicely fit in the slot I cut in the barrel channel and is slightly thicker than the web of wood I want at that location. How do I know the thickness of that piece of wood; I consult my drawings.
I glue the piece in place and then I have a choice. On most guns I make, I paint the barrel channel with a varnish thin coat of AcraGlas epoxy to seal it but also to greatly strengthen the barrel channel side walls, which on my guns are very thin. However, on some guns the owner does not want the bedding so I just make sure the strip of wood fits precisely so it is not obvious when the barrel is removed. If I use AcraGlas, everything is hidden. Finally, after everything in glued in place and dry, I run my ramrod drill down the hole, which shaves off the bottom of the spline of wood glued in place and I am done.

dave

 

[Staggerwing]

Dave, thanks so much for explaining how you go about the repair. It comforts me to know you have dealt with this several times. As I pointed out this is my first time fully inletting the barrel and drilling a ramrod hole. And I am using a swamped barrel. You mentioned drawings. I did order a drawing from TOTW for the Isaac Haines. Not many dimensions but a good reference. I made a pattern from the print and used it to rough out my stock. I measured the barrel every inch and laid that out on the stock. I’ve laid out all the lines on each side of the stock so that is what I reference to. It looks to me like I should have a nice, slender stock when I’m done. I don’t know If I want to use the dremel or not. They are nice but one wrong move….. I’ll get the bottom of the barrel channel cut out to where I can see what I have. Thanks so much for your help. Thanks to everyone that commented!

 

[Vaino]

I sometimes wonder that if a RR hole doesn't end up as intended , that many times the problem is w/ the RR groove. .....either it's pointing in the wrong direction, especially w/ a swamped bbl or the blind end of the RR groove isn't properly finished and starts the drill pointing upwards. I intentionally make this length of the groove slightly below the rest of the RR groove.

Many years ago I visited Fred Miller { he only did bbl /RR work} and as he gave me a tour of his shop, I noticed that all his RR drills were ground w/ a flat bottom "point"...the same as mine. When I was doing the drilling, never had a RR hole end up wrong and attribute this to all the above.

A flat bottom "point" acts somewhat like an endmill and is very easy to sharpen. A brad point is similar but much more difficult to sharpen w/o a fixture. ......Fred

 

[Staggerwing]

I sometimes wonder that if a RR hole doesn't end up as intended , that many times the problem is w/ the RR groove. .....either it's pointing in the wrong direction, especially w/ a swamped bbl or the blind end of the RR groove isn't properly finished and starts the drill pointing upwards. I intentionally make this length of the groove slightly below the rest of the RR groove.

Many years ago I visited Fred Miller { he only did bbl /RR work} and as he gave me a tour of his shop, I noticed that all his RR drills were ground w/ a flat bottom "point"...the same as mine. When I was doing the drilling, never had a RR hole end up wrong and attribute this to all the above.

A flat bottom "point" acts somewhat like an endmill and is very easy to sharpen. A brad point is similar but much more difficult to sharpen w/o a fixture. ......Fred

While making the ram rod channel, I made a scraper out of an old file that had shoulders on either side of the rounded portion so that when I got to proper depth it would go no deeper. I also used a depth gauge to check the entire length to make sure it wasn't sloping one way or the other. I squared off the point where the drill bit begins to make the hole. But you know, it doesn't take being off very much to create an issue. I had to be off somewhere. If it's not too much trouble I would appreciate seeing a picture of your drill bit. I'm not sure I understand the flat bottom point. Thank you.

 

[Rifleman1776]

An old style spoon or flute bit can drill a hole without drifting. But when I tried drilling I had a regular bit welded to a long rod. Total failure, it wandered. After much fussing about I took a length of mild rod and made the end into a sorta round rasp. It works, sorta. Got a big hole but it was where I wanted it. Take Dave's advice.

 

[EC121]

Jack Garner used to route all but about 3" of his ramrod holes in the forearm. A popsicle stick(now called "craft sticks" at the store) is a press fit in a 3/8" slot.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
TVM and Jack Garner still rout out the ramrod hole from the barrel channel rather than drill it. I believe some TRS stocks are done the same way.

dave

 

[ekettenburg]

On Moll/Rupp type rifles, or more generically 'Lehigh' type rifles, you almost need the rammer hole practically into the barrel channel at the breech in order to get the forearm right. It's also going to practically mandate a tapered rod because you'll need to "thread the needle" between rammer, barrel, and forward lock bolt. Often when a guard is removed on one of those rifles, the forward finial of the guard has also cut into the rammer groove.