Ramming Ball Without Powder

[dcriner]

I have experience, a few decades old, with percussion muzzleloaders. If a shooter absentmindedly rammed the ball without first loading power, just remove the nipple and pour in as much powder that will fit. Replace the nipple and fire. This avoids pulling the ball with a threaded ball extractor.

For a flintlock, would a ball extractor be required?
Doug

 

[ebiggs1]

Most of my flintlocks have removable touch holes and a person can just remove it and push in a few grains of powder. Matter of fact, all my flintlocks have removable touch holes come to think of it.
If you just had a 1/16th or smaller drilled touch hole, it may be a challenge getting any powder in.
So far, I have not needed to do this procedure but sure as I brag about it, I will be pushing some powder in a removable touch hole tomorrow, at least soon!

 

[Zonie]

Most of the flintlock shooters use a fairly fine powder to prime the pan. Usually 3Fg or 4F powder.

With some patience, and the help of a vent pick or a paper clip, powder can easily be worked down thru the vent hole into the breech under a "dry ball". Once 3-5 grains of powder is worked into the breech, priming the pan and pulling the trigger will usually cause the gun to fire driving out the ball.

It is a good idea to ram the patched ball down to almost reach the touch or vent hole before firing.

Although most will agree that 4F powder should not be used as a main powder charge, 4F powder (or 3Fg powder) can be safely worked thru the touch hole to expel a "dry ball". Even a load of 4-7 grains of 4F powder will not be a danger to the gun.
It will be a danger to anyone or anything standing in front of the barrel when this is done though. More than one person has shot a hole thru their drywall by thinking, "Such a tiny amount of powder can't cause any damage!" :rotf:

 

[Tumblernotch]

After you make sure your touchhole is clear, shake a little ffffg into your pan and then turn the rifle on its left side. Tap the rifle on the wrist (just behind the lock) with your right hand. You can see the powder disappear into the hole. Do this two or three times and you should have enough to make it cough it out.

 

[tiger955]

Been there, done that, exactly as Ranger said...
Won't say how many times, but it was more than once. :haha:
Sometimes the ball won't come clear out if you use too little powder, just add some more, and try again, just make sure to ram the ball down again.

 

[roundball]

I've done it both ways and for me, fooling with the powder approach is more trouble than its worth...I just 'pull' the ball...only takes 20-30 seconds

 

[Stumpkiller]

None of my vents are easily removable. I use a threaded ball puller.

 

[C Barker]

How about a CO2 discharger? :idunno: :grin:

 

[zoomer]

Well,i just did it this afternoon with my new lyman deerstalker flintlock in 54 cal.On it's second shot i got a flash in the pan :hmm: looked over at my powder measure ,yup still full.Pulled the wedge and barrel off,unscrewed the touchhole liner and was able to get enuff 3fff powder into the patent breech to shoot the ball out :yakyak: It was much easier than the first time i ever done it and had to try to pull the ball then got the ramrod stuck as well...newbies :surrender:

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

I have a CO2 discharger, and it will shoot out the ball IF the barrel is not fouled to much...It has happended a few times that the ball would not move and I was forced to use other methods to get it out :surrender:

 

[MikeChapin]

For a flintlock, would a ball extractor be required?
Doug

It depends on the flinter. Most production rifles (TCs, Lymans ect.) have patent breeches. The ball will not enter the breach area so there is space to put to push in 5 or 6 grains of 4F behind the ball through the touch hole. This is usually enough to pop the ball out.

Most custom rifles have flat breeches and a dry ball invariably goes right down to the breech face leaving no space behind the ball to push powder in. These usually require a ball puller.

BTW: The CO2 extractors have tips that can be used on flint rifles. I have not tried one but they sure work nice for percussion rifles.

 

[DoDabber]

I'm with stumpkiller. A threaded ball puller is a must for your shooting bag. The Co2 discharger is also a good idea. I have heard of but never witnessed that a barrel can 'balloon' or even explode if the powder thru the touch hole method is used. This is a big safety factor in all of the woodwalks I've participated in. The ball puller was the only acceptable method of removing a 'dry ball' while competing.

 

[remuse]

Most of the flintlock shooters use a fairly fine powder to prime the pan. Usually 3Fg More than one person has shot a hole thru their drywall by thinking, "Such a tiny amount of powder can't cause any damage!" :rotf:

During my first fling with BP 35 years ago, I had a Motorola radio console, converted to a bar of course, that boasted a perfect .58 caliber hole! :shocked2:

 

[Skylinewatcher]

Thats what I do. Just jerk him out. You can use a sapling and some light rope to help if its really stuck.

 

[tiger955]

I can't see how 4-5 grains of 4f could damage my barrel when I routinely touch off 80-100 grains of 3f with no ill effects. I will continue to use the "blow it out with powder" method until I see proof that it is unsafe. Often pulling a dry ball is not so easy especially if the bore is somewhat fouled in my experience, much easier to trickle a few grains of powder through the touch hole.
To each their own I reckon.
Happy trails

 

[gordy]

Most of the time , I agree with Zonie and/or Stumpkiller. But for me the powder method has worked much better than the puller , I"ve never tried the co2 method but its more things to keep track of and I like to keep things simple but safe . Where the idea that the powder process will bulge or ring or explode a barrel comes from ? Unless the ball was not seated to the breech and a LOT of powder was forced through the vent and the ball not reseated is the only way it might cause such a problem . :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

And you have my blessings on your disagreement with my method.

I don't doubt for a minute that the people who put on woods walks and other competition matches have a rule that says the shooters cannot use the powder method of removing a dry ball.

They are acting on their belief that it might cause a dangerous situation and they are acting in the interest of safety.

I on the other hand have never heard of a 4-6 grain charge of powder under a dry ball causing anything to happen except for the ball being expelled, usually at a velocity that you can see as the ball bounces downrange.
When loaded this way, the gun does not go "BANG". It goes "Thuumpp", giving an indication of just how much power is involved.

The folks who have damaged their barrels have placed a full powder charge into the barrel and then (for whatever reason) rammed the ball about 10-20 inches down the barrel and then fired the gun.

When this is done, it isn't exactly the rise in pressure from the burning powder that does the damage. After all, if the ball is on or very close to the powder the pressure will just start the ball moving up the bore.
If, on the other hand the ball is located at some distance up the bore from the powder charge, there is a sonic wave created by the exploding powder that travels at the speed of sound up the barrel gaining strength as it goes.
When it meets the stationary ball it delivers all of its power to the rear of the ball and the barrel around it. This can bulge the barrel.

This explains why a person using the small 4-6 grain load to expel the dry ball should push the ball down the bore to the tiny powder charge before firing the gun.

 

[tiger955]

The folks who have damaged their barrels have placed a full powder charge into the barrel and then (for whatever reason) rammed the ball about 10-20 inches down the barrel and then fired the gun.

When this is done, it isn't exactly the rise in pressure from the burning powder that does the damage. After all, if the ball is on or very close to the powder the pressure will just start the ball moving up the bore.
If, on the other hand the ball is located at some distance up the bore from the powder charge, there is a sonic wave created by the exploding powder that travels at the speed of sound up the barrel gaining strength as it goes.
When it meets the stationary ball it delivers all of its power to the rear of the ball and the barrel around it. This can bulge the barrel.

Thanks for that Zonie...
I have often heard that a barrel could/would be damaged from not seating a ball properly, never really understood why. Excellent explanation.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

If you have a Chambers white lightning liner on your flintlock and you dry ball,

1. Make sure the ball is seated on the breech then trickle in all the 4F you can get in the liner's cavity.

2. prime and touch it off. This will move the ball a little way off the breech.

3. Now you will be able to get more 4F behind the ball.

4. Using the ramrod, set the ball on the powder.

5. Prime and "pop" the ball out.
It works for .62, .54 and .40 caliber flinters.

I have Chamber's liners in most of my flintlocks, the others are in line for them.

 

[JOHN F]

i dry balled one last week.beautiful young lady with gorgeus hair and akiller body came into the range and smiled and said hello..trying to keep the conversation going was more important to me than putting 50 grains of fff into thebarrel first..tried to vent pick some ffff in but didnt work..ball puller did its job....