Ramrod to Short!

[Splais]

I just received a rifle and have determined the ramrod is about 1" to short to seat the bullet actually about 2" if you leave something to grab so you can pull it out!

36 cal. 44" barrel, 45gr charge, percussion. when I measure the ramrod it is 2and 1/8" shorter than the barrel and it seats all the way in its tube, i.e., it hits bottom. the only other BP gun I have is a Hawken and the ramrod on it is only about 3/8" shorter than the barrel. I 'suspect' the ramrod has broken off inside the stock even though it doesn't look that way. it's the only thing I can come up with.

I'm looking for ideas/comments. As soon as I can get a 36cal bullet puller I'm going to screw it down the stock hole and see if I can pull out a broken piece of ramrod.

So how far should it seat in stock, how can I drill it out safely if that is the problem, if I can figure out how - can I drill it out all the back to end of barrel without hitting lock/trigger parts, or should I just leave it alone and use a 'field' ramrod (not very authentic)?

 

[silverfox]

Quick question have you removed the lock to see if you can see the ramrod or ramrod hole. Also how about removing the barrel to look.
It also could just be simply Stopping on a lock screw. Pull your front lock screw and try your ramrod again. If this is it you will have to slot the screw or taper your ramrod.
Thats all I can come up with now. Good luck.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

For using the rod, I'd just screw in one of the "extended" jags and leave it on the rod. That should add 2" or so to the length, and by the time you add powder and ball, you should have plenty protruding above the bore to grab onto.

As for rod bore in the stock, it might not have been drilled as far as needed in the first place, so the builder just cut off the rod shorter. May be a case of not having long enough drill stock. I'd look it over real close and talke to a good smith before I tried to do any work on it.

 

[Splais]

Yes, this is all new to me and I'm going slow before I start 'taking things apart'. The gun is to beautiful for that. The ramrod is definitely too short to use for shooting or cleaning. I'm making contact with our local BP shooting club next weekend and hopefully one of them can help. I'd really like to have a 'functioning' ramrod.

 

[Dave K]

Also, really do yourself a favor and get a rod, preferably a metal rod with bore protector, for all target shooting and cleaning. That way you won't have a broken rod and a dirty gun or a gun with the load stuck 1/2 way down the barrel. Only when I am hunting do I use the rod that is in the gun. All other times I use my range rod.If you are buying or making another rod for the gun, buy or make 2 of them. That way again, you are not stuck with the above mentioned problems.

 

[Trench]

I quick fix is to get an appropriate sized dowel rod if you want to replace the ramrod altogether. I like the idea of simply screwing in a loading/cleaning jag in to the existing one too.
I wouldn't worry to much about using a metal range rod for target shooting when it comes to authenticity. I think you might find yourself authentically breaking your wooden rod when loading tight fitting balls or if you have to pull a ball with it. The metal rod has made pulling balls so much easier for me. I leave the wooden rods for field work only.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

You might consider getting a good Delrin rod for the loading and cleaning bit. It will last you a lifetime. No worries about breaking it or damaging the rifling with it. Various tips can be purchased to fit the ends of the rod. Really worth it if you ask me. :hmm:

 

[boar]

I have two little rods that screw into rods. One is longer then the one. I use them on the guns that have short rods. One end is for rod, the other end is for jag. They fit TC rods. You could tread your own. There handy. Dilly

 

[Splais]

I have a 48" Pro-Shot steel rod for all the serious stuff.

My main problem is the fact that a proper length wood ramrod will not fit in the gun, it will stick out 3" past the end of the barrel. It's the hole in the stock I'm concerned with, and why it's not deep enough or how it got plugged.

Is there anything particularly tricky about removing the whole lock as a unit - and putting it back in!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Remove the barrel from the stock, so you don't have to deal with the ramrod pipes on the false rib, and put that Ramrod back in the stock. Mark the spot where it comes out of the forestock with your finger nail, and hold onto the rod as you withdraw it. Now, lay that rod on the bottom of the forestock, align your thumbnail where the rod comes out the forestock( entry pipe) and now look and mark with a pencil on the stock where the other end of the rod is located. That will give you an idea of how deep that hole is.

Whether its plugged or just not drilled deep enough is something you can determine by removing the lockplate. In most guns, the ramrod hole comes through the lock mortise at the front lock bolt hole. If it doesn't come through there, the usual reason is that the hole turned toward the barrel and it will have removed wood at the bottom flat at the back of the barrel mortise. Sometimes you have to lightly tap on the wood in the bottom of the mortise with a small metal rod to create sound in the ramrod channel to find where the hole is located. I will NOT FALL over to learn that the factory simply didn't drill the RR hole deep enough.

BrownBear's suggestion to buy an extended jag and screw that into the end of the ramrod is the way to go. Yes, it sticks out past the muzzle and will get black residue on the jag every time you fire, but a cleaning patch, or a towel will easily wipe away that residue and keep your hands reasonably clean as you clean load and fire the gun. His suggestion that you get a loading and cleaning rod made of one solid piece of metal , with a muzzle protector on it is also Right ON! Of all the equipment I take to the club range, I suspect my Range Rod is "loaned " to more other shooters than anything else, excepting, maybe, my nipple wrench! :shocked2: :hmm:

I will never understand why anyone shooting a percussion action does not have a nipple wrench with them all the time. :shocked2: :youcrazy: The only percussion gun I shoot is a shotgun, and I often don't even take it to the range! But, that nipple wrench stays in the top shelf of my range box, along with other tools needed to complete take apart a gun or lock. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

As to removing the lock, first mark the position of the slots of the lock bolt heads with a pencil or scribe with a witness mark on both the slot and the stock or bolster under the bolt. That will allow you to return the bolt to the exact same position.

Now back both bolts out a couple of turns. On a new lock and gun, the lock plate may be tightly fit to the lock mortise. Just use the back of the screwdriver handle as a light hammer, and tap the head of the two bolts, while they are still in the lockplate. This will drive the lockplate out of the mortise slowly so you don't splinter any wood. Once the lockplate is loosened, go ahead and back out both screws completely and remove them. Put them down on your workbench so that you know which bolt fits which hole. They usually vary in length a bit. Sometimes, a smaller diameter screw is used in that forward bolt to allow passage of the Ramrod between that bolt and the bottom flat of the barrel.

To put the lock back into the stock, make sure that the trigger is down in the correct position to allow the sear bar to pass over it. Then gently put the plate back in the mortise, and tap it down with that screwdriver handle. Hold the lockplate in the stock, and now put the two bolts back into the stock. I Like to get both bolts started before I screw either of them down.

LEAVE THE GORILLA OUT OF YOUR SHOP WHEN TIGHTENING THESE BOLTS. Treat this lock like a fine pocket watch. You don't have to use lots of force to tighten the bolts. Not the witness mark on the screw slot and take the bolt down until you see the mark coming around towards the companion mark on the stock finish or bolster( washer or sideplate) under the lockbolt.Before turning the bolt that last turn, do the other bolt to the same position. Now, with your fingers, in the holes where each bolt is coming through. Make sure that the bolt does not come out beyond the flat of the lockplate.

IF it does, you have the bolts reversed. Take them both out, and put them in the correct holes. If you put a too long bolt in the upper lock plate hole, it can interfere with the cocking and falling of the hammer, and tie the gun up completely. Been there and done that, as they say!

While you have the lock off the gun, check all the screws. They should not be very loose. Again, don't crank them down like you are attaching a tow frame to the underside of your half ton truck! Treat these screws like those IN THAT fine pocket watch!

Clean out any wood chips in the lock mortise. Check the movement and function of the lock while holding it in your hands. Oil the moving parts.

If you feel or see any rubbing on the lockplate, you need to take the lock apart and file and polish off the burrs, or coarse edges that are rubbing.

Talk to us about how that is done, and we can walk you through the process. It really is not as hard as some shooters try to make it be. If you are new to the sport, find a BP gun club near you, or someone who has been shooting BP guns for many years. They can teach you first hand how to maintain, and operate your gun.

 

[Splais]

Thanks for all the info. another question: "one solid piece of metal , with a muzzle protector..."

I have a solid metal ramrod as stated above. It is very smooth and very stiff, it is inconcievable to me it could damage the bore. What is the muzzle protector you refer to and why required. thanks

 

[paulvallandigham]

The muzzle protector is made of brass, aluminum, copper, or a synthetic, like Delrin, and it does what the name suggests. It protect the muzzle from being rubbed by any rod to which it is affixed. Back when barrels were made of soft irons, it was not uncommon to find that silica grit that worked into the surface of wood, and later brass and synthetic ramrods, would slowly polish the muzzle out of round. Some of the old barrels show pronounced wearing at the muzzle. Cutting or filing the muzzle back 1/8" is usually all that is needed to bring the accuracy back to the gun, but even that is a lot of work. The muzzle protector is a small " funnel " through which the ramrod moves. It centers the rod so the jag and shaft of the rod doesn't rub against the rifling either as it goes down and comes out of the barrel. And, because it is a funnel that is held to the muzzle while the rod is moved back and forth, it keeps any debris from becoming "sand paper" or a " file " and ruining that muzzle.

A Square muzzle, or at least a muzzle that is rounded or coned square to the bore is desireable because such a muzzle releases the ball or bullet from the barrel equally on all sides at the same time. If one side of the muzzle is damaged, or worn, gas is able to escape out that worn area, and that will push the ball or bullet away from that part of the circle- sending the ball or bullet towards the opposite side. Add a fast spinning projectile, and you may not know where that bullet or ball is going to hit.

Target shooters are fanatics about accuracy, and it should come as no surprise that they often not only cut their muzzle square, and do not crown the muzzle or cone it, but the actually polish the face of the muzzle mirror smooth, so that they can actually use the dust and powder residue marks on the muzzle to tell them if there is something wrong with their patches, or conicals.( If a out of round spot appears on the muzzle, releasing gases sooner than the rest of the circle, you get a longer streak of residue at that location, indicating that you either have a defective muzzle, or a torn patch for some reason.)

 

[JohnnyO]

My ramrod when inserted falls just below the muzzle of the barrel, so without a jag on it I cannot get it out, I figured this was normal, I added an extended jag that I put on only for ramming and LIGHT wiping and it sticks out of the barrel enough to grab it, so I'd say that's about normal unless yours is still short even with a long jag on it...
I use a single brass rod for cleaning duties or even hard ramming when at the range :thumbsup:

 

[Many Klatch]

It isn't uncommon for a ramrod hole and a lock bolt to cross each other. I have more than one rifle that have that problem. It will be the front lock bolt. Try this before you do anything expensive. Remove the front lock bolt and then try the ram rod. If it drops in deeper than it is a problem with the lock bolt. In both my guns the offending lock bolt has been partially filed away to allow room for the ram rod. The head of the lock bolt has a reference mark on it so that it is always installed so that the filed area is properly installed.

Many Klatch

 

[Grenadier1758]

You say that you have just received your rifle. Have you talked with the maker to see what help can be offered?

I agree that the most likely cause is that the front lock screw is placking the ramrod channel. measure the depth with the front lock bolt removed. This is a common problem that I have exoerienced first hand. I used a smaller lock bolt and tapered the ramrod to make it work. On my fowler, the front bolt is a wood screw with the same head as the lock bolt.

By all means use your range rod for most of your shooting and get a muzzle protector to prevent wear on the muzzle and the last few lands at the muzzle.

 

[tg]

Seems like the quickest way would be to cut off an inch or so off the muzzle end of the barrel :hmm:

 

[tg]

Ramrod extensions are not hard to make if needed, there are several good ideas you jyst have to pick the one you like the best

 

[mazo kid]

Is there anything particularly tricky about removing the whole lock as a unit - and putting it back in!

As Paul and others have said...start by simply removing the front lock screw and trying the ramrod in the hole again. One other thing about removing your lock: some mainsprings are at or just a small bit below the bottom of the lock plate when the hammer is down. I usually put my hammer at half cock and then remove the screws and lift out the lock as Paul suggested. At least for the first time, until you can determine if your lock needs that little added space between the spring and wood.

 

[musketman]

Seems like the quickest way would be to cut off an inch or so off the muzzle end of the barrel :hmm:

I was just getting ready to say that. :haha: :hatsoff: