Range report - advice needed!

[nodakhorseman]

Hello Gents,

About 3 weeks ago, I purchased a Lyman GPR in a .50 cal percussion with a 1 in 60" twist. Today, I took it to the range for the first time to get her sighted in. I just love the gun! Well balanced, smooth trigger pull and it touches off almost as fast as a regular centerfire rifle.

I used a patched round ball (.490), a .015 pre-waxed patch, an overpowder card and 80 grains of Pyrodex Select (FFg). Like I said, she touched off each and every time--I suppose I shot around 25 - 30 shots.

The way it shot, however, leaves me a bit confused. I started out at 50 yards with a good steady rest (sand bags). Right out of the box, the gun shot about 8" low and about 2" to the left. The very next shot was about 1/2 inch to the right of that one. Not bad I thought for consistency.

I then adjusted the rear sight for elevation and the next shot was just a touch high. Boy, one or two more shots and I was sure I had it all tuned in. That's where I got confused. :hmm:

The only real pattern I noticed after that was I always shot to the left. Easy fix next time at the range--tap the rear site to the right. As far as elevation, I was all over the map. A couple high (as high as 5"), a couple low (as low as 6") and a couple right in the middle (but still left).

After the two in the middle, I moved out to 75 yds. I was happy to see that the first shot at 75 yds hit right next to the two in the middle. I thought I was on to something, but right after that, it started shooting all over the place again.

Over the course of the 25 - 30 shots, I ran maybe 4 spit wads down the barrel to clean it up a bit.

My first side lock was a $100 Traditions. Right out of the box, that gun drove tacks with a PRB out to 100 yds with no adjustments made. So, this whole situation is new for me.

Anyone have any recommendations? Is this gun that sensitive to not being cleaned between shots? Or, am I not using the amount of powder that my gun prefers?

I obviously need to hit the range again (and again). I have a whitetail buck tag, a whitetail doe tag and 2 mule deer doe tags that I plan to fill with this gun--so, right now I'm a bit nervous.

If I need to provide more information, please let me know. Any help shortening my learning curve would be much appreciated. :bow:

Thanks. --Nodak

 

[torn moc]

I sure bet you didnt scrub the factory gunk out of the brand new barrel before you went to the range.....correct?
They coat the bore with some nasty stuff that can cause shots to spew everywhere.....

 

[roundball]

Hello Gents,

About 3 weeks ago, I purchased a Lyman GPR in a .50 cal percussion with a 1 in 60" twist. Today, I took it to the range for the first time to get her sighted in. I just love the gun! Well balanced, smooth trigger pull and it touches off almost as fast as a regular centerfire rifle.

I used a patched round ball (.490), a .015 pre-waxed patch, an overpowder card and 80 grains of Pyrodex Select (FFg). Like I said, she touched off each and every time--I suppose I shot around 25 - 30 shots.

The way it shot, however, leaves me a bit confused. I started out at 50 yards with a good steady rest (sand bags). Right out of the box, the gun shot about 8" low and about 2" to the left. The very next shot was about 1/2 inch to the right of that one. Not bad I thought for consistency.

I then adjusted the rear sight for elevation and the next shot was just a touch high. Boy, one or two more shots and I was sure I had it all tuned in. That's where I got confused. :hmm:

The only real pattern I noticed after that was I always shot to the left. Easy fix next time at the range--tap the rear site to the right. As far as elevation, I was all over the map. A couple high (as high as 5"), a couple low (as low as 6") and a couple right in the middle (but still left).

After the two in the middle, I moved out to 75 yds. I was happy to see that the first shot at 75 yds hit right next to the two in the middle. I thought I was on to something, but right after that, it started shooting all over the place again.

Over the course of the 25 - 30 shots, I ran maybe 4 spit wads down the barrel to clean it up a bit.

My first side lock was a $100 Traditions. Right out of the box, that gun drove tacks with a PRB out to 100 yds with no adjustments made. So, this whole situation is new for me.

Anyone have any recommendations? Is this gun that sensitive to not being cleaned between shots? Or, am I not using the amount of powder that my gun prefers?

I obviously need to hit the range again (and again). I have a whitetail buck tag, a whitetail doe tag and 2 mule deer doe tags that I plan to fill with this gun--so, right now I'm a bit nervous.

If I need to provide more information, please let me know. Any help shortening my learning curve would be much appreciated. :bow:
Thanks. --Nodak

Hard to say other than brainstorming some things that MIGHT cause such results...most of which you probably already know:

1) When sighting in, the bore should be kept in as close to identical condition for each shot as possible...that means cleaning/wiping the sam amount for each shot...not every few shots.
NOTE: Add a couple strokes with a bore brush as well to ensure no buildup is occurring;

2) Sights loose?

3) Not resting / holding the rifle exactly in the same place every time will result in different POI's.

4) POA must be precisely the same every time...I mean precisely;

5) Changing overhead sun angles can hit the sights differently throughout the course of a range session and start driving you crazy;

6) Wind can affect accuracy more than you might think;

7)A tighter Patch ball combo often tightens groups...an .018" pillow ticking patch would be worth trying

8) Let the barrel stay fairly cool for each shot...a heating up barrel can expand and the POI can change...had to have TC replace a barrel for me that began walking off as it heated up.

9) ?

10) ?

 

[jdixon]

Where to start ... yes, I don't care what Jim Shockey says about being able to shoot his in-line a 1000 times and never swab :bull: you need to clean the barrel between each shot. Fouling changes pressure, pressure differences will change your bullet strike, add to this the tendency for Pyrodex to behave dramatically different depending on loading pressure (either from fouling or seating pressure) and you have all of the makings for a target group that looks more like a shotgun pattern. When you go out hunting with this gun, you will be shooting at game with a clean barrel - right? It only makes sense then when sighting this thing in that you make that barrel as close to your hunting conditions as possible ”“ by sighting it in with a barrel as clean as you can get it each shot.
The over powder card you mentioned, is that a felt wad or something else? Why are you using one of those? You shouldn’t need one. Are you finding the gun is tearing up your patches? It sounds like a new gun ”“ you may very well have to lap that barrel to wear down the sharp edges on the rifling, those will screw up your pattern. Try shooting it without a “card” and go out and find the patch and look it over. If it is all torn to pieces, or laying out in front of the bench on fire, you will need to work on the barrel some.
Patch thickness may be a little thin, typically I shoot a .018” or even a .020” thick patch, try a little thicker patch may help.
Powder, if you can find it, try regular black powder in 3F and drop down to about 70 grains. You will find true black powder to give you more consistent velocities and is less likely to mis-fire.
Of course if you try any of these suggestions, only do so one at a time and monitor the results. It may take a little time figuring this gun out and getting it seasoned, but that what makes shooting and hunting with these traditional guns so much fun.

 

[flaming canvas]

You didn't mention how tight the ball and patch are in the bore. As mentioned above, you can try a thicker patch. You might also try .495 ball.

Lyman builds good guns, so don't give up on it.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Don't give up on that rifle. I have two .54 GPRs, one percussion and one flinter. Both are excellent shooters. Try starting at 60 grains and increase 5 grains at a time, until you start getting good groups. I shot Pyrodex RS for 10 years, until I found Goex, with no problems. J.R. might be on to something. A friend of mine just got a .54 CVA Hawkens. Started off shooting with FFg Goex and was getting shotgun patterns at 50 yards. I gave him some FFFg Goex and his groups went to a 1" group at 50 yards. You may want to try that. If you can't find any Goex, try some Pyrodex P, which is equal to FFFg. Hang in there :thumbsup: .

 

[Rikeman]

This sounds very similar to my experience as I just started shooting BP last December. I started out with exactly what you are talking about! My shots seemed to be all over the place. On some good advice, I finally settled in to using .018 patches with 80 grains Pyrodex. Things got a bit better from there, but still a bit inconsistant. I was told by many others that instead of lapping my bore right away I should get at least 100-150 rounds through my rifle to get it broken in.

It really started to settle down a lot at about 120 rounds and is now a tack driver! I also atribute the acuracy to my becoming more familiar with my rifle and routine. Keep shooting and trying different combos it will settle in.

 

[nodakhorseman]

I'll answer one person at a time--everyone sure had some great suggestions/ideas!

Yep--I did clean out the bore. I used carb clear and a WHOLE LOT of cleaning patches until they came our near white. I dropped my bore light in there after cleaning tonight and she looked squeaky clean.

 

[mykeal]

1) Clean bore thoroughly with carb cleaner, then Ballistol or other mineral oil based bp solvent.

2) Swab between every shot, one wet then one dry when sighting in.

3) Don't pay too much attention to group size for the first 100 rounds.

 

[nodakhorseman]

Of all the things you mentioned, I definitely didn't clean it often enough--maybe once every 6 or 7 shots. At that, I only ran one moist cleaning patch through. What is the proper (or best) way to clean between shots?

The spring-loaded rear sight is a bit spooky. The screw that adusts the rear sight does not fit tightly and will gradually spin if you're not paying attention. That said, I was paying attention and didn't allow it to move. Eventually, I might file the front sight, but didn't want to do that until I was able to consistently shoot it accurately.

Maybe I'll try a thicker patch. The .015" patch resulted in a pretty loose fit.

 

[nodakhorseman]

Thanks Rikeman. Makes me feel better that I'm not alone.

It sure is fun to shoot, so getting to 100 plus shots fast won't be a problem!

 

[nodakhorseman]

Cleaning between shots makes sense--now that I think of it!

The OP card is .125" thick (purchased from Track of the Wolf) and has a cardboard feel to it--probably felt. This was recommended to me by several others on this site before I headed to the range. These gentlemen reported better groups when using the OP card.

 

[nodakhorseman]

With the .490 ball and .015" patch combination, they slide down the bore pretty easily.

I'll first try a thicker patch--much cheaper than a box of round balls!

Thanks all. I'll make sure to report on how this progresses for me. With a bit more tinkering, I'm optimistic this will lead to a full freezer!

 

[Little Wattsy]

Had a similar issue and at about 100 rounds I was ready to throw the gun away...At about 150 rounds it settled in. maybe it was me maybe the gun was "breaking in" either way it DID get better. :hmm:

 

[BV]

I experienced exactly the same thing with my .54 GPR. When it was brand new, I couldn't even start a load with a .018 patch so I used .015's. After about 50-75 very frustrating shots all over the target I found I could load the .018's. I also took the spring out of the rear sight and stretched the manure out of it. That not only allowed me the height adjustment I needed, it also seemed to hold the sight in place much better. When I shot after that, I put five shots, overlapping, into a 1" bullseye at 50 yards.

I get acceptable accuracy out to about 80 yards (75 meters at my range) but still not acceptable at 100. Where I hunt, I can live with an 80 yard shot, but after deer season is over I plan to install the fixed rear sight.

I suspect this will reveal the main culprit in my accuracy problems, after a little break in, was the flimsy adjustable rear sight.

BTW, the most accurate load I found in mine is 85 gr. Goex 3F, .018 pre-lubed pillow tick patch and a .530 ball.

 

[hthomso]

My .50 GPR took about six range sessions to get the accuracy I thought was acceptable at 50 yds. I did this through changing patch size, powder charge, and lowering the front sight. I also swabbed between shots. My only suggestion is to try 3Fg Goex.

 

[Mountainman56]

Yep the ball patch combination should be a good tight fit. It should take a good swack to get it started. You may also try using something like bore butter or better yet Swampy's moose snot.

In my GPR .50 Pyrodex Select worked the best of all the black powder substitutes. Mostly now I use Goex FFFg with improved results.

Getting there is half the fun and you are certainly on the right track. :thumbsup:

ps: Oh yeah, first thing I always do is throw away the factory nipple and replace it with a Red Hot. I also use CCI Magnum caps.....especially with pyrodex.

Good luck and keep us posted. :hatsoff:

 

[BLAHMAN]

I saw this very same dilema, though it happened to a fellow I was hunting with. The poor guy missed several deer at very close ranges, and it was suggested that he just try to club them as the ran past him.....

Long story short, his brand new GPR had a very coarse barrel and his patches were getting shredded as he loaded. The solution at Camp was simple: we scrubbed the bore with some steel wool and his accuracy picked up tremendously.

I'm not sure what outfit makes the barrels for the GPR, but I've seen this happen at the range also. Keep in mind, that Lyman is intent on selling a product, affordable to all, with as little effort as possible. That doesn't mean the quality isn't there, it just like any other business: make it fast, sell it fast.

Production barrels all have these little buga-boos about them, sharp edges on the lands, a tiny little burr perhaps, unevenness in the bore....

My suggestion is to pick up and observe your patches for any blow-by, or tears, burned edges, what ever. It may be you have some sharp edges.

I wonder if you could also replace that rear adjustable sight with a non adjustable sight. That way, you can sight it in and not worry about a spring getting too loose, or bumping the gun thus moving the sight.....that's the nice thing about non-adjustable sights: they stay put.

Just my two cents....but with todays inflation and economic trends it's only worth 1/4 of 1/2 of 1/8 of...you get the picture :haha:

 

[roundball]

Of all the things you mentioned, I definitely didn't clean it often enough--maybe once every 6 or 7 shots. At that, I only ran one moist cleaning patch through. What is the proper (or best) way to clean between shots?

Not sure there really is "one" best way as there are a few variables...I guess the bottom line is to get each shot's fouling out of the bore before taking the next shot when sighting in...and the amount of fouling can depend on things like:

1) How tight the PRB combo is...a tighter fit usually results in a little less fouling;

2) The type and amount of powder that you're using...some powders foul less than others, and a 100grn charge will produce more fouling than a 50grn charge, etc;

3) The amount of humidity in the air at the time you're doing a lot of shooting...higher humidity keeps the fouling soft...low humidity makes it dry harder and stick to the bore walls...we're talking about humidity beginning to affect fouling within seconds after taking a shot;

4) The type and amount of lube that you use can have an effect on the amount of fouling...BUT...more importantly, whether it keeps a shot's worth of fouling SOFT in low humidity, dry conditions.

For example, a bore butter type lube like TC's Natural Lube 1000 is all I use on my patches for hunting loads as the lube will not affect the powder. And at the range during the high humidity summer months of NC, I can shoot a 50 shot range session with them without wiping between shots...because the moisture in the high humidity air is sucked right into the bore after a shot, that keeps the fouling soft, and the next patched ball "wipes" the bore when its seated...repeats that cycle every time.

But in the cool, dry, low humidity months of winter here, I can't do that...I have to squeeze a few squirts of Hoppes No9 PLUS BP liquid lube into a bag of patches and get them good and damp, borderline glistening wet really, and I can still shoot the whole 50 shots without wiping because the liquid lube takes the place of no moisture being in the air...other lubes are as good I'm sure...the point is the liquid during dry conditions.

So for sighting in I always approach getting the bore virtually 'clean' for each separate shot...whether that means a simple down & up with one patch, or it could mean 3-4 wet cleaning patches, then dry patches, then a lubed patch...the degree to which you have to labor to clean it depends on how much fouling you're getting from a given load with a given level of humidity.

 

[Haleh]

Nodakhorseman,

I have that same rifle. Like others have said run a couple hundred shots through it first. I got rid of that rear sight right off. Problem was the rear sight had to be elevated so high that there was not enough spring pressure to keep things tight. You could try filing the front sight down some so you won't be so elevated on the rear sight. I never liked the adjustable and put the fixed rear sight in. I use a .490 round ball with .018 pillow ticking. For range shooting I use a spit patch and don't wipe till the end of the day (50+ shots) and can't tell any change in accuracy. For hunting I use deer tallow and after about three shots I have to wipe it out.
By the way when you eyes get a little older you may want to open up the rear sight a little to get some more light around the edges. It made a big difference for me.

I think your really going to like that rifle. I can shoot 40-75 grains of black powder and it only changes the elevation. Windage stays right on.

H.Hale