Range Report, Heavy loads, GPP

[JackAubrey]

Rat,I completely agree w/ you.The loads were written by lawyers.And I think 60 grains is probably pushing the effective useful load limits.There will come a point of diminishing returns.More bang,more smoke,more recoil,less velocity.I would very much like to chronograph these loads.

 

[dylan]

Hey guys
Sounds like you all know what you are talking about. Im from the South African bush veld and BP pistols are not big here. I bought a .50 ardesa patriot(trapper) but am not sure what loads to use. I have a .50 lyman trade rifle so would like to use the same bullets which are .490 rb and a 320gn REAL bullet. How much powder should i use for the ball and bullet......I can only get hold of FFG powder and not FFF. I want its "whompability" to be fairly good. Please help. Thanks

 

[Plainsman1540552678]

My GPP is in .54 cal., as is my Hawkins, thus eliminating the confusion, when I grab for a ball. I fire 30grains of FFF, with a .530 roundball, have excellent results with it. :m2c:

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Good news the 275g Maxihunter will stablize in this pistol also, tried it this weekend :thumbsup:

I shot them with 50g FFF 777 and a wonderwad. Heck of a wollup though gotta find me some more of the REALs.

 

[flaming canvas]

Speaking from experience, these loads will crack the stock sooner or later. I've been through 4 stocks on 54 cal GPP using prg and 50 gr 2f. Some of them only lasted 7 or 8 shots.

 

[mec]

ahah! I've seen your posts before. They're the big reason I keep my charges on the sedate side. I don't have a need for real high velocity loads but I suspect if I did, I'd try to strengthen the stock with acu-gel. Not sure that would work though.

 

[Rat]

Well now I don't suggest a constant, steady diet of the heavy loads. Now that my 60 grain, 240 grain bullet load is sighted in, it won't get used much. Probably a couple shots per year, just to empty the gun. Same with the really heavy ball load. Otherwise, for 99% of shooting it will be moderate loads with a round ball. In fact my next goal is to develope a light ball load that has the accuracy to "nip" the head off a grouse, at close range. (and also a shot load)

Now where exactly are those stocks cracking? I know that on any stock, if there's no room to "give" behind the tang, they will often split there from normal recoil. Are the stocks cracking behind the tang? Or....? Different places?

Now I have had twenty shots through my pistol with the 240 grain slug and 60 grains of powder, and at least that many, more I'm sure of the ball over 65 grains...my stock is not cracking. I'm thinking there must be more going on rather than just recoil. ?? Seems like if the barrel and tang are properly inletted...? Have you tried glass bedding FC?

RAT

 

[Rat]

Dylan,

I think that the 320 grain bullet is getting a bit heavy for a pistol...I'd go to a lighter bullet.

I'm not familiar with your pistol, and don't know how it compares to the GPP. But 60 grains under a ball is the same whompability of the Walker Colt, and that's a whomper of a pistol.

For all around use, but still packing a lot of power, I think 50 grains would be safe in any pistol, but still deliver lots of power...more than any revolver except the Walker or dragoons.

But again, even though I'm confident the GPP will handle the loads discussed, I just don't know about the Trapper.

And again for slugs, I'd use the lightest bullet for the calibre, which I've found is the Hornady 240 grain. I think the Buffalo Ball-et weighs 250.

???????

Rat

 

[flaming canvas]

Now where exactly are those stocks cracking? I know that on any stock, if there's no room to "give" behind the tang, they will often split there from normal recoil. Are the stocks cracking behind the tang? Or....? Different places?



RAT

They crack through the hole for the cross bolt and into the mortise for the lock, same as the TC Patriot is famous for. Three were factory stocks and one was a walnut stock from totw. I have another one on the workbench when I can get into the mood to work on it. Too hot to get out there now. This one is made from scratch to fit my hand and will have a single set trigger.

 

[mec]

Whenever this comes up so does the notion of using glass bedding compound to strengthen the stock.
Can you seen any likelyhood that enough of the stuff could be applied in the right places??

 

[mec]

 

[Rat]

Ahh I see, that kind of makes sense...I think, not sure what sense to make of it, but I'm gonna put my brain to work on this!

:youcrazy:

Yes Mec things look pretty well bedded/tight already from your pics. Hard to say what difference glass bedding would or would not make. Even a very thin gap could maybe permit the steel parts to get a "run" on the wood during recoil? I don't know.

It also seems funny that that cross bolt would be moving back hard...too lazy right now to take my gun apart, but the barrel does not bear on that does it? Or could the barrel be shoving the lock it's self back?

Would it make sense to give that cross bolt some clearance?

Looking at my GPP right now, I can see how if the bolster was bearing against the lock, that would indeed allow the barrel to shove the lock plate, and the cross bolt into the wood, and crack the stock. My bolster and lock looks like it has a tiny gap, or clearance.

Maybe there's the key, to make sure the rear of the barrel, and the tang and breech plug are taking all the recoil and not the lock plate. I don't know. Just throwing stuff out.

Questions questions questions.

Rat

 

[dylan]

Thanks alot RAT.
The trapper(patriot) is like a fancy kentucky pistol(www.ardesa.com),very impressed with mine but like lyman(i have the lyman trade rifle). Maybe you can answer another question? when ever i go shooting (7 days a week), my first two shots out of a clean barrel are always underpowerd. 3, 4, 5, 6th shots are awesome full powerd shots and very accurate. Does this happen with your GPP. I shot 50gn FFF and a .490rb yesterday with no excesive recoil at all. Thanks again.

 

[Rat]

Pressure does rise as a barrel becomes fouled, but it sounds more like you have some left-over oil in the breech that is getting into your charge.

Try cleaning with alcohol just before shooting.

Rat

 

[Bear Rider]

dylan,

When I used to shoot in competition, we would take the gun out, swab the barrel, and snap a cap on it BEFORE loading in order to burn out any residual oil in the chamber and flash tube.

 

[Bear Rider]

Rat,

On the question of glass bedding. I used an Acraglass with fiber added to it to glass bed my GPP when I built it from a kit about 20 years ago. The glass was primarily for protection from cleaning solvents. I shot a .54 wadcutter that was originally designed for the Sharps percussion. I don't know what it weighed, but it was awesome, and generated a recoil to match. I never had any trouble with the stock.

After reading this, I took a close look at mine, and this is what I see 20 years later. The lock plate is flush against the barrel, and the bolster appears to be centered in the cutout with about .040 gap all the way around. The cross bolt has plenty of clearance around it without being sloppy. The recoil plate is firmly embedded, and probably hasn't been out of the stock since it was glassed, although it was treated with a release agent, IIRC. There is one slight oddity, in that the key only fits one way due to a very slight arch, probably a result of the glass bedding.

Everything is still tight. Tight enough that barrel requires a definite tug to pull it out of the stock.

Bear Rider

 

[Rat]

That's interesting, as it looks to me that if the bolster "bears" against the lockplate, it would push it, and the cross bolt into the stock.

I can understand how, on a production gun, some would get fitted that way. If all the recoil is on the tang/breech plug and hooked breech, there "should" not be a stock cracking problem, and if so it should split behind the tang.

???

What say you, FC?

Rat

 

[mec]

http://www.flyinglead.info/bb/viewtopic.php?p=20064#20064

Look what this guy is doing with his!