Running some figures in a ballistics calculator shows roundball going transonic at around 50-75 yards (depending on the initial velocity). I’ve seen .22s go from tack-driving accuracy to all FUBAR once they go transonic. Is roundball likely to see the same effect? More muted? Exaggerated? Trying to get a sense of what range limitations I need to respect with the PRB.
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RB past 50 yards?
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GoodRabbitPilgrim
Do Not Live in America
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Two weekends ago my mate shot a fallow (about the size of a whitetail) from a ranged 108 yards with 90 grains of FFG and a 230 gr .535 ball from my .54
Dropped on the spot.
Dropped on the spot.
.54 would certainly do better than my .50 at those ranges.
I should clarify that I’m not concerned with penetration past 50. Just the cone of error (group size).
Round balls stay pretty stable in the transonic range. A .50 at MV of 2200 fps will go subsonic at about one hundred yards. Losing 1100 fps in tgat hundred yards. At three hundred yards it will slow to about 350, but a .50 fired at 1100 fps will slow to about 325.
A .50 will make a killing wound at that velocity, though I would never push any hunting beyond one hundred yards myself and think twentyfive is the best range.
Look posts by Idaholewis maybe they might help.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...c-renegade-50-cal.136310/page-10#post-1910608
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...c-renegade-50-cal.136310/page-10#post-1910608
Drop is the big killer on RB's never mind the wind. Tremendous drop front 100 to 200 yards. My light bench buff rifle needed 68 clicks from 100 to 200 sight was a Redfield Olympic 1/4" click. It had not enough to get to 300 so for the 300 I used 2 targets the top one to aim on bottom for score. I was happy if I got all 5 in the scoring rings at 300
Clint Eastwood once said, " A man has got to know his limitations". Probably the best way to understand your rifle's limitations is to shoot it at different distances.
This is .490 PB over 100 grains Swiss 3F at 120 yards. The trajectory is very flat.
This is .490 PB over 100 grains Swiss 3F at 120 yards. The trajectory is very flat.
1” groups at 100 yards are done with some regularity by top shooters. With iron sights. Try that with a modern type gun. Not that easy.
Doesn't seem to be much of an issue there. Fine shooting!
You need to know where exactly you will hit at 100y anyway and likely 75 or so anyway so there is no telling until you do it.
hanshi
Cannon
Generally for my .45s and .50s velocity stays in the 1600 fps to 1800 fps. When My eyes were better I could shoot groups at 100 yards that ranged from about 3.5" to 4". Can't do that now but the last time I tried with the .50 I got 5" on a painted 12" gong.
Henry Miles
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Standard iron sights, like semi-buckhorn and blade front, don't lend much to pinpoint accuracy at 100yds with less than perfect vision. 50 yds is more doable. I have to use 1.0 reading glasses to make the 50yd doable goal. With them, I can shoot 2"-3""groups @ 50yds easily. 100yd groups are 4"-6". It's all in the quality of eyesight.
This is PRB! That ballistic program doesn’t apply! Test fire and see what takes place!!!
bldtrailer
Pilgrim
Muzzleloading Silhouette matches shoot targets out to 200 yards, and it took being able to clang steel 4 or 5 times out of 5 at that range to have a decent chance to win. PRB can hold a decent group beyond 100 yards, but you need to judge the distance pretty accurately or else know that bear target was set up at 200 and the buffalo at 150. With fixed sights, I remember increasingly extreme sight pictures beyond 125 yards,
No the roundball is a sphere, where as the other bullet that you mention is conical. That's why it tumbles.
The round ball has a very poor ballistic coefficient, so it sheds speed much faster than the more modern designed bullets. However, even after going past the point of transonic, the round ball of sufficient mass is quite lethal.
My farthest shot to take a deer was 110 yards..., the ball still passed right through
LD
You will not experience the transonic effects that are observed with a Rimfire where they are measured in tenths of a minute of angle when shooting sub .25MOA groups, and these small difference can be the difference between placing first or last in competition. With my most accurate muzzleloaders that run about 1MOA(on a good day!), any transonic effects would not be material for most all practical purposes, and would not be on my list of reasons for deciding to take the shot. IMO.
Interesting. Conceptually, it makes some sense that the sonic rear “slap” that can make a bullet yaw in flight as it goes transonic wouldn’t affect a sphere the same or much at all. I’m learning a lot here gents. Much appreciated.
I shot a spike bull elk at 100 yrs with a 530 ball and 120 yrs 2f. Broke the near shoulder, got both lungs, and ball was flattened out under the skin on the far side. Round balls of sufficient diameter make devastating wounds on game. I would never shoot at game beyond 100 but that's just my own imposed limit.
While the shape of the bullet(ballistic coefficient), and whether it is spinning or not can influence the de-stabilizing caused by transonic effects, the greatest influence creating instability while in the transonic zone(with rimfire) is the effect of the presence of wind….which causes the dispersion of the groups. Overall, the whole discussion of transonic effects are a subject of much debate. The best solution is to test your particular rifle/load(whether muzzleloader or modern) for your application.
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