Real World smoothie/roundball accuracy?

[Rancocas]

I just used my .62 fowler to knock a crow out of the air from 250 yards. Got him right in the eye, exactly where I was aiming. :grin:
Th'other day I was using the same gun to pick flies off'in my mules rear end at 75 yards.

... I used 140 grs. for the 140 yd. shots. I have 3, .62
cal, 1-.69 and 1,.73 and have found no difference in accuracy regardless of the powder charge, my guns are just as accurate with 140 grs as they are with 50 or 60 or 70 or 80. I don't use any wads just powder, patched ball. Put some time in shooting them and you'll find them to be much more accurate than most seem to think.

Yeah right. You put 140 grs in a .62 fusil de chasse and you have a pipe bomb in your hands!
The manufacturer's recommended maximum load for my .62 Wilson Chief's gun is 80grs. of 3F.

 

[The Baron]

I am not an experienced PRB shooter, having only fired maybe 100 PRB's from my .62 fusil (no rear site). I've only shot on paper out to 50 yards, and with my best ball size/patch combo I was getting about 6"-8" at 50 yards from kneeling. I've shot some really nice groups at 25 yards (couple inches or so), but my groups seem to really open up on me past there. I tried a few shots at 100 yards one day just to see what I could do, and I couldn't keep them all on an 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper.

I am looking forward to (hopefully) getting a deer this next fall with my smoothie, and I will feel entirely confident to 50 yards with a chance to kneel or use a tree to help steady myself. I will be practicing this summer with hopes of becoming a consistent 6" shooter at 50 yards. I think my real handicap is the lack of a rear sight. I need more practice to maintain a consistent sight picture from day to day.

 

[Ron Stone]

I get 3inche at 25 and 6inches at50 dont shoot 100

 

[KHickam]

2 to 4" at 25 yds - 4 to 6" at 40 yds :thumbsup:

 

[Darkgael]

" start shooting the pellet gun offhand again ..."
I was happy to read that since it reinforces my own habits. It is truly amazing, in a sense, how much benefit there is to be had from practice with an air rifle or pistol.
I'm in the 4-6" group arena with my .62 at 50 yds. using a .600RB/0.015 patch/ 70grs. FFg. No rear sight.
Pete

 

[Deadeye]

Enough that I can use the same sight picture for whatever range I'm shooting up to 150 yds. and 150 grs. Farther than that I elevate my front sight. 150 is usually far enough, occasionally
there will be targets as far as 200 but most of the time not over 150.

 

[Deadeye]

Rancocas, just because you don't know how to shoot doesn't mean others don't.
Keep practicing, who knows, maybe some day you'll learn but you might have to change your negative attitude first.

 

[Zoar]

The idea of practicing with an air rifle is sound advice. Although to fully replicate the situation where you only have a single front site on the MuzzleLoader it means your best served if you also use a pellet/air gun with only a front site, too.

I have a few guns with only a front site. I find they all shoot differently.

The big bore (54 cal and up) of the muzzlleloaders we are tallking about here do make a flash, crack and whack. All items that could contribute to poor marksmanship. Sometimes I pick up my little 22 when I feel like my skills with the big flintlocks are slipping.

At any rate this is a great thread and the info here has been valuable and interesting!

 

[Rancocas]

Rancocas, just because you don't know how to shoot doesn't mean others don't.
Keep practicing, who knows, maybe some day you'll learn but you might have to change your negative attitude first.

I was a firearms instructor for many, many years. I've won trophies in firearms competitions. I know how to shoot, but even with a modern slug-gun with a full set of rifle sights, what you are claiming could only be done by maybe 1 in 100.
I took your post as a joke - at first. But, if you believe what you said, or worse expect me to believe that you get 5" groups at 125 yards with a smoothbore that doesn't have a rear sight - well then, you sir are an ass.
If you can really do that, then take your act on the road and you will soon be rich and famous, because you are better than Annie Oakley and Buffalo Bill combined. :bow:

140 grains in a thin walled .62 smooth bore = R.I.P. Its just a matter of time.
:rotf: :rotf: :bull: :rotf:

 

[KHickam]

Well, as I shoot more with my fowler - my confidence grows and I am pretty pleased with how I am shooting now.

I even managed to hit a 6" wide stump at 75 yds off hand 2 out of 2 times.

So, I am actually looking forward to deer season this year. :thumbsup:

 

[Donny]

.62 42" fusil or a .62 English fowler=I can hit a paper plate at 25 yards two of five shots sometimes, benched or not, 50 yards I can put five shots into the backstop and maybe one on the paper (bull) 100 yds I have shot 4 relays at the same target,no holes, they actually let me.
tried PB and ww.
pillowticking

 

[Dphar]

I shoot my Fucil de Chasse a lot and always offhand. Bore is .620, I use a .600 pure lead ball and a .013 ticking spit patch. The best I've
done (not average but the best) is 3 shots at 125 yds. in 5 " and 5 shots at 140 yds. in 7". This is a NO REAR SIGHT FLINTLOCK. I use 70 grs. 2F up to
70 yds. and 1 gr. per yd. for longer ranges. I used 140 grs. for the 140 yd. shots. I have 3, .62
cal, 1-.69 and 1,.73 and have found no difference in accuracy regardless of the powder charge, my guns are just as accurate with 140 grs as they are with 50 or 60 or 70 or 80. I don't use any wads just powder, patched ball. Put some time in shooting them and you'll find them to be much more accurate than most seem to think.

The "best" can be the result of what a friend calls the "law of compensating errors". The ball zigs, the shooter/wind etc zags and what would have been a way "out" flier is "in".
The AVERAGE is far more illuminating.
I shot a 3/4" 3 shot with my 16 bore rifle at 60 yards the other day but I don't think the mirage I had on the barrel would have allowed a repeat so I called it a fluke. First group was 2" with vertical stringing I would associate with the mirage.
The 50 cal "smooth rifle" I am testing just because of such claims as this, with set trigger and a much longer sight radius fired under the same conditions put 5 shots into 5" x 7 1/4". This smoothbore shoots too poorly at the moment with either 490 or 495 patched balls and 3 different powder charges to allow it to kill small game every shot at 25 yards with solid shot.
This is very much like every other smooth bore I have ever owned in the past 30 years or so. a .75, a 58 and a 62.
I will likely lap this thing before I am done to see if it helps it any.

If you go to the Western National Rendezvous, just north of Manila, Utah, see if you can get the Booshway to witness and sign a target for you at 125 or 140 yards. PAPER target. Then have him send them to me. I gotta see these wonderous groups.

If I get down there I will purposely go to the smoothbore shoot. Based on last year you are sure to win if you show up.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Rancocas, just because you don't know how to shoot doesn't mean others don't.
Keep practicing, who knows, maybe some day you'll learn but you might have to change your negative attitude first.

I was a firearms instructor for many, many years. I've won trophies in firearms competitions. I know how to shoot, but even with a modern slug-gun with a full set of rifle sights, what you are claiming could only be done by maybe 1 in 100.
I took your post as a joke - at first. But, if you believe what you said, or worse expect me to believe that you get 5" groups at 125 yards with a smoothbore that doesn't have a rear sight - well then, you sir are an ass.
If you can really do that, then take your act on the road and you will soon be rich and famous, because you are better than Annie Oakley and Buffalo Bill combined. :bow:

140 grains in a thin walled .62 smooth bore = R.I.P. Its just a matter of time.
:rotf: :rotf: :bull: :rotf:

Its what I call the "cult of the smoothbore".
I ran into a guy at the western nationals who told me how good his smoothbore shot. I came by the range when the scores were announced for the smoothbore match (I WISH I had known it was going on so I could have watched but I did not pay proper attention and missed the shoot) and found the winner equalled what I had shot with the then new 16 bore rifle that was not sighted in and proved so inaccurate I sent the barrel back. It was not the guy with the highly accurate smooth bore either, he did't place.

Smoothbores are random. Anyone that has ever owned a Daisy BB gun KNOWS this. I had a trade gun about 30 years ago that I shot a lot. Everytime I thought I had it pegged and tried to hunt with the thing it would throw a flier and I missed. I did manage to kill a Hun with it one day with #6 shot. But in shooting at a deer and antelope it was a dismal failure. I traded it off to a friend who was a very experienced flintlock shooter and he made the mistake of hunting elk with it. He shot several shots at a bull and it finally realized it was being hunted and left.
If smoothbores shot as well as many claim the rifle would have never caught on.
My 54 flintlock rifle will shoot into 6" at 200 yards if the wind is near zero. I think the 16 bore will do better but have not shot it on paper at this distance.
I have a 50 cal rifle barrel for the "smooth rifle" and will test it as soon as I get done with the SB barrel. The rifled barrel is the original barrel for the gun but its new and put the SB barrel on about the time I got the rifle shooting.

In a 20 bore 140 gr is not a real high pressure load, less than 1/2 ball weight. The bigger bores get better velocity out of the powder for some reason. My 16 bore rifle will move a one ounce ball 1600 with 140 gr of FFG Swiss. The original barrel for this rifle was much rougher and actually produced more velocity than the smoother barrel did. 140 gr is only about 34% of ball weight. A 54 would be hard pressed to do this with 70-75 gr with a 30" barrel including the patent breech.

Dan

 

[JackAubrey]

I concur w/ Many Klatch,that's about what I expect from my Bess as long as I do my part.Best regards,J.A.

 

[Skychief]

Ahh, heck...let's bump this back up.

 

[DrLaw]

I did manage to kill a Hun with it one day with #6 shot.

I thought we weren't at war with them recently. :blah:

Seriously, I had been reading some nice things about smoothbores here in these forums, but then, this thread, and it has me wondering again.

The Doc is out now. :v

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have a nice 20 bore English/New England style fowler built from quality parts. 42" barrel, no rear sight, fits me like it was made for me--which it was. I've used it for years and am very familiar with it. I worked up its best load years ago and shoot it a lot. The best I can do is a 4" group at a measured 60 yards. But I can do it consistently. That's good enough for hunting particularly in New England. And rarely is there an occasion when there isn't a tree to rest against for steadiness. I think a good snug patch is as important as the right powder charge.

I can consistently hit a man sized silhouette at 100 yards, but the hits vary from stone cold dead to slightly annoyed him. The idea of hitting anything at 140 yards with regularity is beyond belief. In fact, if I ever hit anything at 140 yards by accident, I'd brag about it for a long time. The thought of firing 140 grains of powder in a smoothbore is absurd. It's a complete waste of powder in the first place, and once a ball exceeds the speed of sound in a smoothbore, accuracy goes to pot real quick. Recoil is a serious factor, too. The ball from a smoothbore is like a knuckleball in many respects. And the faster it goes, and the farther it goes the worse the accuracy becomes.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Enough that I can use the same sight picture for whatever range I'm shooting up to 150 yds. and 150 grs. Farther than that I elevate my front sight. 150 is usually far enough, occasionally
there will be targets as far as 200 but most of the time not over 150.

You aren't that guy that was on You Tube a while back are you? The drunk guy who did everything wrong and scared the hell out of his own kid? Finally took his video down because everyone was telling him what a jerk he was?

 

[torn moc]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
MAN you have a " way" with words!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I am known for my subtlety and my gentle ways. :rotf: