Real World smoothie/roundball accuracy?

[Deadeye]

It's sad that persons that don't know how to shoot
can't accept the fact that someone else can. Persons that put down other shooters to try to make themselves look better only hurt themselves.
Deadeye

 

[torn moc]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: ........
who do you think can't shoot????

 

[rabjr]

I probably shouldn't post here but I will. My 32" Colerain .12g smoothie has a rear sight. It was made for deer hunting only an I chose to put a rear sight on it. Once I found my load, I shoot ragged holes at 50 yards with it. I forgotten now the only 75 yard group shot with it but I think it was around 4 or 5". It just wasn't intended to be a long range gun, 50 yards is plenty for what I need it for. Funny thing is I knocked over a big Doe at 75 yards with it, hitting it just about where I wanted to.

But with rear sights, not sure it would be real world accuracy your looking for.

:haha: Guess I posted twice on this thread. Sorry!

 

[JackAubrey]

I echo what Many Klatch said with my Bess.Best regards,JA

 

[tg]

I would be very interested in seeing 100yd plus shooting with a smoothbore front sight only with that kind of accuracy, I know some old boys who hold their own and take a rifle match now and then with a trade gun but have seen nothing like that close of groups or use of that heavy of charges.

 

[kherring]

I went to the range today with my .50 cal flinter and 20 bore fowler. My fowler is an english style gun with a 40 inch OTR barrel and no rear sight. Shooting from a bench rest I was happy to be able to keep 4 of 5 shots on a paper plate at 50 yards. Thats the best I can do with it but I think it will put meat on the table. Looking forward to slinging #6 shot at doves this fall.

 

[Dphar]

It's sad that persons that don't know how to shoot
can't accept the fact that someone else can. Persons that put down other shooters to try to make themselves look better only hurt themselves.
Deadeye

Find some impeccable witness and have him witness the shooting, affirm the target is genuine and that the firearm *really is smooth* and not scratch rifled or in some other way "improved". Yeah, scratch rifling smooth bores for use in "smooth bore" matches has been done before, documented to the 19th century at least and makes for a sure winner. Smooths rifled with a lead lap and coarse energy will shoot well for about 100 shots.
If you ever come through Cody, WY or Big Timber Montana I should be able arrange a little shooting contest. But be sure to bring money for entry fees and side bets.

Dan

 

[Greenmtnboy]

It's sad that persons that don't know how to shoot
can't accept the fact that someone else can. Persons that put down other shooters to try to make themselves look better only hurt themselves.
Deadeye

Find some impeccable witness and have him witness the shooting, affirm the target is genuine and that the firearm *really is smooth* and not scratch rifled or in some other way "improved". Yeah, scratch rifling smooth bores for use in "smooth bore" matches has been done before, documented to the 19th century at least and makes for a sure winner. Smooths rifled with a lead lap and coarse energy will shoot well for about 100 shots.
If you ever come through Cody, WY or Big Timber Montana I should be able arrange a little shooting contest. But be sure to bring money for entry fees and side bets.

Dan

Hay count me in!
me and the wife will be coming through in the spring to work on our land in the Yaak.
I'll come and take yer money.
:haha:

 

[satwel]

I shoot a 20 ga type D fusil with a 42" barrel. .60 ball with .015 pre-lubed Ox Yoke patch, 65 grains of 3F. The best 50 yard, off-hand, 5-shot group I ever shot, I could cover with my hand. That has happened only once. Groups of 5-6" are more typical.
BTW I have started to experiment with roughing up the surface of the balls by rolling under a wood rasp. I haven't fired many that way, but it does seem to shrink the group.
If you think you try to achieve the same reproducibility as a rifle, you will drive yourself crazy. Good luck and have fun.

 

[rich pierce]

I hope I get lucky with my next smoothbore build. My 20 ga Green Mountain barrel (1" octagon, 34" long) shoots low and it's been a bear to try to bend it. I might have to use a hydraulic jack or something. I can always get 8" groups off the bench with just a front sight at 50 yards but that's not good enough. I do have an occasional good group but I think that's just luck/compensating errors. So it's used only for small game with birdshot. I might try dimpling the round balls, see if that helps. 70 grains FFG Goex, .600 round ball, .018 ticking, spit patch. Doggone gun is percussion so I don't use it much anymore anyhow.

 

[Dphar]

It's sad that persons that don't know how to shoot
can't accept the fact that someone else can. Persons that put down other shooters to try to make themselves look better only hurt themselves.
Deadeye

Find some impeccable witness and have him witness the shooting, affirm the target is genuine and that the firearm *really is smooth* and not scratch rifled or in some other way "improved". Yeah, scratch rifling smooth bores for use in "smooth bore" matches has been done before, documented to the 19th century at least and makes for a sure winner. Smooths rifled with a lead lap and coarse energy will shoot well for about 100 shots.
If you ever come through Cody, WY or Big Timber Montana I should be able arrange a little shooting contest. But be sure to bring money for entry fees and side bets.

Dan

Hay count me in!
me and the wife will be coming through in the spring to work on our land in the Yaak.
I'll come and take yer money.
:haha:

To plagiarize a TV show "Come on Down!"
Like I said, bring money. Bring several friends with money. $50 or $100 or ? entry? This is no "ha ha!" I am dead serious. Talk is cheap.

All the expert smoothbore shooters who have guns that outshoot rifles are *specifically* invited.

Give some lead time so we can set things up. If you need I will PM more contact info. Distance will be 60 yards or more paper target string measure or scoring ring.
Open sights per NMLRA rifle rules, guns typical of the 1740-1860 era. Wadded or cloth patched round ball only, no "tails" or "fins" or sabots allowed. BP only. Flint or typical of the 1820-60 era percussion. Ammo and guns to be juried. Further details will be worked out. Will likely pay 3 or 5 places if enough shooters show up with the normal fee for the Cody Shooting Complex.

At Cody the first Saturday of the month is the usual thing for MLs so any Saturday when the shoot is run would work if anyone is the area.

But if the stakes are right I am sure something can be worked out.

Call it a smooth vs rifled grudge match if you like. But any traditional ML is welcome.

Dan

 

[rich pierce]

I'm in with the side bets. Can't make the trip but might make some money! :rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If the barrel has not been damaged by attempting to bend it, you can still move that POI by filing the muzzle. File the muzzle on the OPPOSITE side from the direction you want the load to move. So, if the load is shooting low, file the bottom side of the muzzle to make it hit higher! Trial and error on the filing, so do this at the range.

Without a rear sight, I don't know how you improve the groups with PRB. I don't know the diameter of the bore, or the ball diameter, patch thickness, lube, powder charge, etc. I was very interested in a target posted here a couple of days ago by another member, who reduced his powder charge under a PRB in his 20 gauge fowler, from 70 to 60 grains of FFg Goex, and shot a elongated one- hole group off a rest at 50 yds. I have been using 75 grains, and based on results of several other members here, I was going to try using 80 grains, and then 90 grains in the gun the next time I was out test firing my gun. I never thought that reducing my modest powder charge might give better accuracy. And, he also stopped using an OP wad, shooting this groups with only a PRB. MY experience with my own gun was that groups got much tighter- dropping in half the diameter-- when I used an OP wad behind the PRB. So, every gun is different, and its worth experimenting more until you get the accuracy the gun should be capable of delivering. :thumbsup:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I hope I get lucky with my next smoothbore build. My 20 ga Green Mountain barrel (1" octagon, 34" long) shoots low and it's been a bear to try to bend it. I might have to use a hydraulic jack or something. I can always get 8" groups off the bench with just a front sight at 50 yards but that's not good enough. I do have an occasional good group but I think that's just luck/compensating errors. So it's used only for small game with birdshot. I might try dimpling the round balls, see if that helps. 70 grains FFG Goex, .600 round ball, .018 ticking, spit patch. Doggone gun is percussion so I don't use it much anymore anyhow.

Well Rich, since that isn't exactly a traditional fowler anyway, why not just take the easy route and add a rear sight to raise your point of impact? That may or may not also tighten your groups.

 

[roundball]

I've been spoiled with the various GM smoothbores I've accumulated...they were all drop-ins with rear sights (smooth rifles really) and that makes a huge difference in group size for sure

 

[hanshi]

I have a TVM flint fowler on order and it'll wear a rear sight. Decided long ago since I'll shoot mostly prb with shot being used solely on turkey, a rear sight was the way to go.

 

[roundball]

I'm having a .62cal smoothbore Virginia built the same way...already had Caywood jug choke the barrel for turkey & squirrel shot loads...and they claim the way they put in a jug choke it doesn't affect PRB accuracy at all...guess we'll see after the holidays

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It's sad that persons that don't know how to shoot
can't accept the fact that someone else can. Persons that put down other shooters to try to make themselves look better only hurt themselves.
Deadeye

Actually, after 50+ years of muzzleloading, I shoot pretty well. Considering my age and tired old eyes, I shoot very well indeed. Perhaps of even more importance, I have learned to estimate range closely. Is it possible that you need to work on that a bit? :v

 

[hawkthrower]

I have a .54 cal smoothie built by Steve Krolick
that will make 6" groups at 50 yds MAX. After that its not real bad at 60 but 70 is anybodys guess. It has been my deer hunting gun for the last 8 years and I have taken 6 deer with it. None over 40yds, 2 running at about 20 to 30 yds. It has won 6 smoothbore matches mostly because I am pretty good at breaking clay birds with it.
I said all that so I could say I agree with you.
Anyone who says they can shot to 140 yds with a smoothbore is living in la la land. :yakyak:

 

[PreglerD]

I have a .54 cal smoothie built by Steve Krolick
that will make 6" groups at 50 yds MAX. After that its not real bad at 60 but 70 is anybodys guess. It has been my deer hunting gun for the last 8 years and I have taken 6 deer with it. None over 40yds, 2 running at about 20 to 30 yds. It has won 6 smoothbore matches mostly because I am pretty good at breaking clay birds with it.
I said all that so I could say I agree with you.
Anyone who says they can shot to 140 yds with a smoothbore is living in la la land. :yakyak:

Hello from Germany!

I have a .54 smoothie too. It is an original rifle from about 1820. do you have any loading suggestions for me! I tested it with .525 RB, overpowderwad and 90 grs WANO PP (Schützen). But it shoots a bit high.

Regards

Kirrmeister