Really new at this

Hello to all.
I am really a beginner with a traditional black powder rifle. I have hunted with an inline for the past few years, and have decided that I wanted the challenge of a traditional rifle. I just bought a .50 T/C Hawken, and would like to ask a couple of questions. Please excuse my ignorance.
Is there any reason except for tradition, for me not to continue using the same Powerbelt bullets I use in my inline? I have taken numerous game animals with them, and am very satisfied with their performance.
Other than tradition and price, is there any real advantage to PRBs for big game hunting?
What about Maxi's?
As you can see, I am not too sure what I am doing here, and can use some help.
Once again, please excuse my ignorance.
Thank you
Twees

 

[Desert Ratxx]

Welcome to traditional muzzleloading, you're gonna love it. You can use your powerbelts or maxiballs or whatever you prefer, I'll let others who are more familiar with a TC to comment on what may work better. A lot of folks here prefer the old fashioned round ball for tradition and the fact that they work quite well. Good luck and good hunting.

 

[gmww]

Hello and welcome to the site. To address your question about RB and Maxi's. You find that many here love the RB's for hunting. I like them but prefer the Maxi's in my traditional gun. I've heard great things about powerbelts but I prefer to make my own bullets to keep costs down. At any rate, I'm almost certain someone with chime in soon on the merits of the RB.

Again welcome to the site! :grin:

 

[playfarmers]

Good to see you come over from the dark side LOL. I have a Lyman Deerstalker in .50 cal with the 1 in 48" twist, that I believe will be the same as you have. I have shot sabots, paper patched Mini'e, Maxi's Lee REAL bullets, and round balls. I have had good accuracy with all, but have settled on using round balls. I have taken whitetails from 12 feet to 110 yards with the round ball. I cast them myself, so the cost is very low as is the recoil, so I can do lots of shooting. I also find the rifle is quicker to clean up at the end of the day.

 

[tg]

Aside from being a large part of the traditional experience, taking one a step closer to the way things were done in the past,the RB is very effective at taking game so the large modern design conicals are not really needed.

 

Tweesdad,
Tradition and cost aside, nobody has talked about the fact that different rates of twist in a barrel perform better with different bullets, or PRB. Chances are good that your inline has a fast twust which makes it more suitable to conicals. Unless your TC also has a fast twist barrel, it is probably a 1-48 which is more suited to PRB. 1-48 will also shoot some conicals with pretty good accuracy but the bullet has to be matched to the twist for better than average accuracy. There are different length and weight conicals available and the first one you pick up might not be the best for your rifle. Experiment, it's part of the fun.
Mark

 

[mykeal]

+1 for what Papa said.

Use only conicals, maxis, Power Belts with slow twist barrels like 1 in 20". Very likely your in-line was such a twist.

Use only patched round balls with fast twists like 1 in 60".

The probability is that your T/C Hawken .50 is a medium twist like 1 in 48", in which case it will shoot either style fairly well, with a leaning towards the prb's.

To find out for sure, put a .50 cal cleaning jag on a long rod that has a fixed handle. Do NOT use a wood rod for this - a good strong metal or composite rod should be used to reduce the possibility of injury from the rod breaking. Lube the barrel with a very light film of bore butter or olive oil. That's very light film, like run a couple of dry patches through after oiling the bore. Then put two dry patches together, making a tight fit and force them down the bore; note where the handle is pointing when you start the patches and count how many times it rotates as you force the rod down the bore. Note where it is pointing when it stops and where on the rod the muzzle is. Then slowly pull it back out and watch the rotation. Then measure the length of the rod from the tip of the jag to the point where the muzzle was when the rod was fully inserted. The twist rate is that length in inches divided into the number of revolutions the handle made.

If your bore's twist rate is 1 in 48" and it's length is about 24", the handle will make 1/2 a full revolution. So: 1/2 divided by 24" is 1/48, or 1 in 48".

 

[Zonie]

The rate of twist as the others have said has an affect on which projectile works best.
In all likelyhood, your TC has a 1:48 twist which is a compromise as noted but IMO, the depth of the rifling has as much if not more effect on the best projectile than the rate of twist does.

The TC Hawken rifling is rather shallow for a muzzleloader being only .005 deep.
This was done by TC because the shallow depth works quite well with solid lead bullets like the Maxi, Buffalo etc. that many hunters like to use.
The .005 deep grooves also work with roundballs if they are tightly patched with a thick patch such as a .015-.018.
This thick patch is commonly used with a roundball in the TC to obtain a very tight fit. The tightness prevents the slipping or jumping of the grooves when the gun is fired.
If one were to shoot a bore sized ball in a TC Hawken, they could get by with a thinner .010 patch because the only real rule is that the patch thickness must be thicker than the rifling groove depth to seal it.

With guns such as the Great Plains Rifle with its .010 deep grooves which are designed for shooting roundballs they usually don't work very well when shooting any of the lead slugs because the groove depth is too deep for the slugs to adequately seal them.

 

[swquiro]

Mykeal,
Briefly, you got the fast and the slow twist backwards, otherwise, right on.

 

[bart_anastasi]

Some suggesions I was given when I first got started in this.

Find yourself a good dear bullet,

Find yourself a good Bear bullet.

Practice.

As you will find here RB's kill just fine and so do Maxi's , but RB's weigh less and have less recoil.

More important though is trigger time. For RB you can get at Wal-Mart at the end of the season RB's less than $5.00 a box
which is less than 5 cents a shot not counting powder and you make your own patch.

I work at a Dicks part time here in New York and am trying to sell people on RB's we have in stock all the time but people look at all the shiney bullets and pay from 1 to 1.50 per bullet and they do not practice.

By the way 80 grains of Goex is more than enought to finish off any deer. So you do not have to live with the recoil.

 

[MikeC]

I personally prefer PRB for reasons stated by others. That being said I would stay away from any bullet that uses plastic down the bore.

If you want to use conicals you just can't beat Hornaday's Great Plains Bullet.

Did you get a flintlock or percussion? Stay away from pellets in either but if it's percussion you can use the fake stuff in powder form if you still have some, no point in throwing it out.

 

[mykeal]

Mykeal,
Briefly, you got the fast and the slow twist backwards, otherwise, right on.

Uh, yup. Sure did.

OOPs.

Thanks.

 

Tweesdad,
I think you have probably received enough info to get your head spinning more than a little bit. You might try to find a local club that will have members who are willing to give some hands on help.ML shooters are a great bunch of friends. The main things to remember are; have fun and be safe. Good Luck.
Mark

 

I got the percussion.
From what I am seeing here, I get the impression that the main advantage to PRB is the cost, and the fact that it is the original load.
I understand that it will kill a deer just fine, and for this I will give it a try.
However, I plan on using this gun for bear, boar, and moose. I find it hard to accept that a 173 grain lead ball will have enough penetrating power for an animal of that type at anything over 20 yards or so. A smallish bear appears to be well within the capability of the load. I don't think I would be willing to trust it for either boar or moose, and certainly not a large bear.
I have taken all of these with the inline, and used the 405 grain powerbelt. Excellent results over 100 grains of Pyrodex Select. (No pellets)
So, I guess it is out to the club and try to find a load that the 1 in 48 twist likes, and that I feel I can count on for larger game. I really don't like the idea of having to take a second shot at a ticked off boar, or larger bear. I can't run as fast as I used to. As for moose, the answer is penetration, and a 173 grain ball sounds sort of light to me.
I am truly sorry if I have stepped on anyones toes, but old habits are hard to break.
I guess I am going to have to start at the bottom, and slowly work my way up to where I fully understand the possibilities.
Thank you once again.
Twees

 

[gmww]

Heck man just the fact your shooting a ML is wonderful. Whatever you decide to stuff down the front is your business. We need more ML shooters if we expect to have this to pass down to our kids.

Enjoy the sport! :thumbsup:

 

[MercerLake]

:v The Power Belts may not do as well in the TC as the MAXi-Ball. The Maxi is engraved by the rifling as it is loaded and was designed by TC. Moulds are readily available if this works out for you. I agree that a .50 Rb is a little light for moose or bear, too much is better than not enough. For about anything else a PRB is hard to beat as is Bp due to much easier ignition.
Welcome to the traditional way of doing things. :v

 

[paulvallandigham]

Save the RB loads for deer. For Bear, and moose, and other large boned and thick skinned game, including wild board, stick with conicals. But Whitetail, Black Tail, sika, and Mule deer can all be killed with well placed shot using PRB. With a .50 caliber rifle, stay with 75-90 grains of FFg and you won't be disappointed. You can shoot 3Fg but you get higher pressures, and greater recoil for it, and at those powder charges, recoil may adversely impact how well you can place a ball at the POA.

 

[feyx0006]

If you have time to work a load, patched round balls can be as inexpensive to shoot as .22 LR rounds (if not cheaper), and you will be shooting a much larger, more powerful round (easily capable of dropping a deer). The efficacy of PRB hunting has been proven generations ago. The economics are only frosting on the cake

 

Let me impose on you a bit.
Can you suggest a starting point for me to begin to work up a PRB load for deer? Sounds like a lot of fun, but I have no idea where to begin. As I said, I have a good deal of experience with in-lines, so I am not totally ignorant of the procedures involved. What I can use is a good starting point. In other words, what works for you?
Twees

 

[MikeChapin]

Let me impose on you a bit.
Can you suggest a starting point for me to begin to work up a PRB load for deer? Sounds like a lot of fun, but I have no idea where to begin. As I said, I have a good deal of experience with in-lines, so I am not totally ignorant of the procedures involved. What I can use is a good starting point. In other words, what works for you?
Twees

I have two fifties that I use for hunting and both use 70 grains for a hunting load. The catch is one is a 1:66 twist and the other is a 1:70. With your T/C you may have to go up a little. The 1:48 twist is more finicky on the load than the longer twist barrels.

I would start with a .490 with a .015 patch with 70 grains. Go up in 5 grain increments until you get the tightest group. It will be pretty dramatic when you hit the sweet spot. A friend of mine found his at about 85 grains. Another at 80 grains. Five grains off either of those loads would widen the group considerably.

Both of these people were getting 2 1/2 to 3 inch groups with the standard T/C sights.