Reasons for Misfires? (igniting main charge)

[bluesman]

As a newbie flinter shooter I have had pretty good good luck with reliability of my rifle. The last time at the range I shot around 10 rounds swabbing wet then dry between shots, then all of a sudden I got a no-fire (pan ignited OK). I inserted a paperclip in the touch hole, and got another no-fire(pan ignited OK). Cleaned the hole again and then it fired normally????

 

[Many Klatch]

That whole swabbing between shots thing can pack crud around the touch hole and block it from igniting the powder. If you are going to swab between shots you will need to clean out the touch hole with every shot as well.

Many Klatch

 

[BE Wild Willy]

I'm a newbie to flint also but I think I know what your problem is. My guess would be moisture left in the chamber from swabbing your bore.

 

[bluesman]

So how much should I be swabing? Dry or wet between shots.

I am using prelubed patches and ammonia free windex for the cleaner. I swab with a wet patch, turn it over swab again and then a dry patch both sides?

 

[BE Wild Willy]

I kinda learned the hard way. I used to swab between shots and would have issues with ignition in my percussion guns, it was needed when I shot conicals. As soon as I switched to PRBs my problems went away. You need a good wet lube like Stumpy's moose juice , or spit patch, and it self cleans as you seat the ball. Didn't have much success with prelubed patches, they don't seem to break up the fouling like a damp patch.

 

[bluesman]

I searched on the moose juice and a lot of folks as well as the original recipe call for soaking patches and then drying them out. I am assuming you are talking about using a wet patch?

 

[BE Wild Willy]

I moisten a few in a baggie and squeeze it out just prior to loading. Made a 2 liter bottle of MJ for under $10, will last me a long time. Bought a yard of pillow ticking from Walmart and I'm good to go, saving a lot of money with better performance than the factory prelubed patches.

 

[Dphar]

As a newbie flinter shooter I have had pretty good good luck with reliability of my rifle. The last time at the range I shot around 10 rounds swabbing wet then dry between shots, then all of a sudden I got a no-fire (pan ignited OK). I inserted a paperclip in the touch hole, and got another no-fire(pan ignited OK). Cleaned the hole again and then it fired normally????

Wiping between shots causes people trouble when the wet patchs are TOO WET. The water pools in the breech and is hard to then dry.
Also using a tight jag will push fouling into the breech/vent and plug the vent/flash channels.
Work on how damp the patch must be to wipe the bore clean and not excessively wet it.
I use one damp patch both sides and a dry one both sides.
I wet the patches at least a day prior to use and keep them in a wide mouth plastic jar with a screw lid.
If too wet add a few patches to soak up more water. This will make them all the same and make for a more uniform bore condition from shot to shot.

When cleaning completely at the end of shooting LOTS of water is needed.

Dan

 

[Matt85]

you havent said what type of gun you have. is it a custom or a factory replica? ill assume your using real black powder and not fake stuff (if your using fake stuff please give it up).

most factory replicas have "patent breeches" which can have very small powder chambers. my pedersoli caplock has the same problem. to solve the problem with my caplock i simply try to swab the barrel as little as possible. when i do swab the barrel i pop a cap to clear the powder chamber. the same could be done with the flintlock. just prime the gun and fire it without a main charge and it should clear the path (in theory).

-matt

 

[bluesman]

The rifle is a Cabelas (Italian Investarms) Hawkin Flintlock 50 cal

 

[Dphar]

you havent said what type of gun you have. is it a custom or a factory replica? ill assume your using real black powder and not fake stuff (if your using fake stuff please give it up).

most factory replicas have "patent breeches" which can have very small powder chambers. my pedersoli caplock has the same problem. to solve the problem with my caplock i simply try to swab the barrel as little as possible. when i do swab the barrel i pop a cap to clear the powder chamber. the same could be done with the flintlock. just prime the gun and fire it without a main charge and it should clear the path (in theory).

-matt

Flashing a pan of powder in a FL to clean the vent is a waste of powder.
If anything it will reduce the reliability by adding fouling around the vent.
The percussion cap is a high velocity detonation.
This will blow obstructions away in many cases. The powder in a FL pan will not.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

So how much should I be swabing? Dry or wet between shots.

I am using prelubed patches and ammonia free windex for the cleaner. I swab with a wet patch, turn it over swab again and then a dry patch both sides?

Just use water for the wet patch and not a lot of that. It will save you money. Not using too much will save headaches.
The need to wipe between shots is dependent on the patch lube to some extent.
But most match winners in competition using paper targets either scoring ring or string measure wipe uniformly between shots.
Dan

 

[Rifleman1776]

So how much should I be swabing? Dry or wet between shots.

I am using prelubed patches and ammonia free windex for the cleaner. I swab with a wet patch, turn it over swab again and then a dry patch both sides?

Swabbing between shots is highly reccomended. But, do use only a damp patch. Too much moisture can give problems. I use a spit dampened patch between every shot. I swab, turn the patch around and do it again. My flint ignition is highly reliable.

 

[ebiggs1]

Wiping between shots causes people trouble when the wet patchs are TOO WET

Not using too much will save headaches.

 Too much moisture can give problems

:hmm:

If you have been reading between the lines here you should have picked up on, the less you swab the better. So, perhaps not swabbing at all is best. :thumbsup:
You should only swab the bore as a necessity and not a practice. For most of us, far and away it causes more problems than it ever solves.
You can use Bore Butter, or plain olive oil, and make your patches slightly wetter than dryer. No mystery formulas required. Swabbing will become a distant memory.

 

[54ball]

New shooter and new rifle, the perfect combo for miss fires.

New Rifle...
Any new flintlock I've had,even customs with the best parts, was finicky when new. As the gun was used it became better and better. For example my 28bore smooth rifle had to be picked regularly to fire when it was new. Now it only miss fires if the flint is dull or there is some obvious obstruction.

It will even fire now if the pan is goey from wet fouling. Sometimes it has to fire a string of shots that way as I am in Andrew Jackson's Militia of 1813-14. The first chance I get I wipe the bottom of the flint and pan out when conditions are like that.

Why it improved, I do not know, maybe it just needed to be shot. May be I improved along with it.

My rifle ...
It's a 45 caliber longrifle. This would classify as a custom build but it was not custom built for me. I had to do a little work to this one.
It needed the vent enlarged slightly and the pan deepened some. The frizzen was rough so it was polished,so was the pan. After this it loved 2ffg prime and main charge. It hated 4fg and 3 fffg as prime.
Now it will fire with 3fg or 2fg.

Why it has improved, I guess it needed to be shot.

I only swab when it needs it, like becoming difficult to load, not so difficult that I stick a ball!

My guns and rifles have benefited from having the frizzen and the pan polished.

You are not going to remove the "chatter" marks from a frizzen but it does help to smooth them. IMHO polishing a frizzen lengthens flint life and gives you better spark.

Polishing the pan and the bottom of the frizzen that covers the pan helps a lot IMHO. For one most locks have a textured surface that holds moisture and fouling. Polishing removes this textured finish reducing the tendency to hold moisture or fouling. Secondly when fouling does collect it is easy to wipe away, a small cloth will get nearly all of it, your finger or thumb can wipe enough of the fouling out for a quick following shot.

As a new flintlock shooter you need to understand that a flintlock burns powder. A percussion detonates it so to speak.

When loading a flintlock, You firmly set the ball on top of the powder, still allowing air to be between the grains. In percussion some will tamp, pack and really compress the load to get good results. This has the opposite result on a flintlock. The ball should be placed firmly enough on the charge to make sure you are not on a "crud ring" but not so firm to compress or pack the air from between the grains. This takes some feel, that you will only gain through shooting.

Use a damp not wet patch for swabbing. Never use a dry one if the bore is dirty!

I do not know why but even if you get flashes and still no main discharge, the flint can still be culprit, maybe it has to do where that weak spark lands. So even if you get a lot of flashes it still may be time to change or knap the flint.

Before you do any "work" like enlarging the vent and such shoot some more and report back with the results.

Lastly never shoot any substitute in a flintlock. They work poorly if at all.

 

[bluesman]

Really good tips thank you.
My goal is to wipse as little as possible. I have read lots of posts where the shooters don't wipe except every 10 shots or so, and I would certainly like to get to that point if possible.

I am only using the real stuff - Goex powder

This rife has been very reliable for the few times I have shot it, it was just funny that it all of a sudden didn't want to fire.

I think it was probably to many wet patches in a row. I didn't mention that it was 35 degrees out, not sure if that matters?

I really have had almost no experience napping flint and judging a good spark, but I was getting 100% flash in the pan reliability. I think I was also starting to load up the pan with powder to almost full and I think that was certainly not helping anything.

 

[Dphar]

Shooting in the cold causes mental lapses.
Hot dry weather means more moisture on wiping patches.
Cold perhaps a little less.
This will vary with location as well.
Montana in summer with low double or even single digit humidity is different than Alabama with 90%.

Dan

 

[ebiggs1]

I didn't mention that it was 35 degrees out, not sure if that matters?

35 degrees has no effect.

I think I was also starting to load up the pan with powder to almost full and I think that was certainly not helping anything

More prime is better than less prime. But just what does that mean? Find an amount that works and error on the side of too much. Now some yahoo is going to tell you, “I use two granules of 2f and my flintlock goes off instantly.” Just don't believe them, use enough. Prime is cheap.

 

[Walks with fire]

Since your rifle has a patent breech I would be willing to bet that there was wet fouling down it the powder chamber. Everyone who uses a patent breech must have a ramrod attachment that can reach into the milled out section of the patent breech to clean and dry that chamber.

I didn't know about it for years but once I started keeping that clean and dry I never have problem with ignition. TC makes a little breech brush and I use that or a pistol brush with a patch on it to clean it. My PA Hunter longrifle barrel was horrible if not kept clean; I wanted to get rid of that rifle but once I started cleaning that patent breech area it's a reliable little tack driver.

 

[bluesman]

When you are talking about a breech cleaner, do yo mean one of those flatblade screwdriver looking attachments?