recommendations for 1st BP rifle

[evanschd]

I'm new to black powder, and plan to hunt deer and wild hog. I like the look of traditional rifles, really want to shoot balls and patches, and need a gun without alot of "shiny" brass. I'm looking at the Lyman Great Plains 50 cal. w/ 1-60" twist. I've found that you can order interchangeable barrels, so I can shoot a larger caliber or go to modern projectiles down the road if the situation presents. Any one have any thoughts, ideas or recommendations.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I surprised that you haven't been buried in replies. From my perspective, the Lyman is a more than respectable starting point. You've also hit on a lot of the right reasons.

You certainly can't go far wrong with it.

 

[hanshi]

I agree. This is probably the safest bet. Why take chances?

 

[Robert58]

The GPR is the best Production Rifle for money that you can get. Buy it in 54 cal. and you won't need to buy any other barrels down the road or need any other projectile. A 54 cal. rb will kill anything in North America.

Robert

 

[Billnpatti]

Yep, that's a darned good choice for a first rifle. One thing I would caution you though is to get a caplock GPR. I would not start with a flintlock. They are pretty persnikity and are best saved until you get a bit of muzzleloading under your belt. If you start with a flintlock, you may become discouraged and get out of muzzleloading. That would be a shame because you would miss out on so much fun.

Welcome to the clan. :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

I agree on the 54 cal. I've got both the 50 and the 54, and in my hands the 54 just balances better. Enough barrel weight for target shooting, while it handles and swings faster for shots on game in the brush. It's also a wee bit lighter overall. No issue on increased recoil with the 54 rather than the 50. At the load levels I use for hunting with RBs (90 grains of 3f in either rifle) I can't tell them apart.

 

[tg]

The LGP rifle in .50 or .54 would be a good choice for a starter gun, they are well made and are generaly made with the original halfstock guns of the 1840-60 period in mind, I am curious as to the issue with lots of shiney brass on a gun, I have had shiney brass on quite a few guns over the last 30+ years and have not found it to be a problem of any kind, it can be dulled with used cleaning patches if one does not like the look of a gun with nicely polished brass,the hunters are more concerned with the brass than is the wild game we hunt.

 

[ssettle]

Lyman certainly is a good choice I have one looks more like a Hawken than the T/C. I had both... now I have semi-customs but I bought my son a Lyman new for 160 bucks. It sat on a gun rack for 2 years before it went on sale. I wasn't going to pass up a deal like that. Good luck with your choice. :grin:

 

[Dphar]

I'm new to black powder, and plan to hunt deer and wild hog. I like the look of traditional rifles, really want to shoot balls and patches, and need a gun without alot of "shiny" brass. I'm looking at the Lyman Great Plains 50 cal. w/ 1-60" twist. I've found that you can order interchangeable barrels, so I can shoot a larger caliber or go to modern projectiles down the road if the situation presents. Any one have any thoughts, ideas or recommendations.

"Modern projectiles"
You need to understand that the supposed problem with the PRB as a projectile has to do more with the need to sell stuff, bullets (conicals, saboted pistol bullets etc) than with any short comings.
A 54 caliber RB has all the range and power needed for most peoples use.
If you want more power is a ML you increase ball size.
As an indication James Forsythe who lived and hunted in India prior to 1860, stated that with 137 grains of BP and a hardened ball his 14 bore (69 caliber) rifle would put a ball completely through an Indian elephants head from side to side. Round balls were the preferred projectile for heavy game (read big and dangerous Africa and Asia) until the advent of the heavy caliber BP cartridge guns. But this gets little press since it will not sell the latest "new and improved" bullet.
At the hunting ranges *traditional* MLs are typically used, under 120-130 yards. The round ball actually has advantages. It shoots flat, it penetrates adequately and does so at LOWER PRESSURE than the conicals do.
If you MUST shoot a projectile weighing 300-500 grains then get a 62-66-69 caliber round ball rifle, they are available ready made. It will out perform the conical in MLs to 150 yards. As far as anyone has any business shooting game with the sights found on the average ML rifle anyway.
A 50 caliber RB will shoot through a deer's chest to 200 yards with a broadside shot.
Moose have been killed at 175 with a 54 RB witnessed by a friend. Too far but the guy took the shot anyway and the moose was down within 20 yards.
I have killed various game with modern CFs, cartridge rifles using BP and "conicals" and the PRB in various calibers. On a given day they all work about as well as the the other. The HV scoped CF will make 300 yard shots easy. The blackpowder cartridge rifle will shoot through deer end to end. But so far as KILLING faster they all average the same with similar shot placement.
The RB *is* range limited. But so is the BPCR, while it will kill a deer or elk or buffalo at 500+ yards with a heavy bullet you need a *good* range finder and a table with sight settings to get a first round hit much past 100-150.

So before jumping on the conical wagon think about it and ask questions. Most magazine articles (and some web sites too) are written for advertising accounts. They *will not* give an advertisers product a bad review. Period. Its gonna be wonderful. If its written as anything but wonderful is just "so-so" its surely a complete POS and the writer just can't write it up better without gagging.
The you tube link is to my shooting a 4 gallon +- plastic jug with a 16 bore (.662" rb) rifle with 140 gr of FFG at about 25 yards. I would not trade this power for any conical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNY2ITNkRWU
Dan

 

[cowpoke1955]

I agree with your choice of rifle, but like others, disagree with your choice of caliber. A .50 caliber makes a nice deer rifle, but when you throw hogs in, that changes. The .54 caliber will give you a little more power. If you order online or cast your own .54s are no harder to find than a .50. With a .54 ball you will not need any conicals. I have two .54 GPRs, one flint and one percussion. The percussion was my first muzzle loader. You won't be sorry. Since you're my neighbor (I'm in NE Alabama) got to keep you on the straight and narrow :rotf: By the way, welcome to the forum and to the world of black powder :thumbsup:

 

[catman]

A 54 cal with a 1:57 twist, is perfect for light loads & heavy loads with a PRB. GM has them in the white.

 

[Robert58]

I don't understand your post. GM has them in the white.

How much difference can there be between 1 in 57" Twist and 1 in 60" twist?

Robert

 

[catman]

They are unfinished raw in the white. Yes your right there's not that much difference, but enough for me (I had to try one to see). I sure do like mine, idea & principle by Steve Zhin..

I don't understand your post. GM has them in the white.

How much difference can there be between 1 in 57" Twist and 1 in 60" twist?

Robert

 

[texcl]

I agree with the others as far as there is no need to use conicals, which are mostly a gimick. I shot a farely large bear last week, with a hardened .58cal rb and 100grns. of powder, the ball shattered the left shoulder at the bone's thickest point hit a rib took a chunk out of the spine severed some arteries blew the lungs to pieces hit another rib hit the femur on the way out, never to be found again. I promise you that a 30-06 would not have bettered this, the bear fell where it stood, I'm a beleiver. I have never been able to recover a rb shot at game.

 

[MSW]

I agree with Roberts58, but don't entirely rule out the notion of a flintlock. Ask around and see if you can find a flintlock mentor, who can show you all the 'ins and outs' of the care and feeding of rockbangers, and if you can find such a mentor, you'll be spared a great deal of the learning curve frustration which so many flint shooters have endured.

good luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of smokemaking!

 

[William O.]

The Lyman GPR will be a great choice, go with the .54 and don't look back. If you really feel the need to shoot conicals then you can buy the drop in Great Plains Hunter barrel later on, but you may be surprized by the slower twist barrel shooting maxi-ball type bullets well. As has been said, shiney brass will dull either on it's own or with a little help. Kep yourself some quality accessories to begin with as well, made of metal and not plastic, you'll thank yourself in the long run.

 

[evanschd]

Thanks guys you've been alot of help. :hatsoff: Everyone seems to agree that the GPR is the way to go, and I'm definitely upgrading to the .54 cal. I'll order it this week. From what I've read, maybe 90 gr. is the best load to start out with... any suggestions on which powder?

 

[BrownBear]

I'd be comfortable starting with either Goex 3f or Pyrodex P. The Goex is less likely to give you any ignition challenges, but it might be harder to locate in your area.

Before firing that first shot though, do yourself a big favor and pull out a can of brake pad cleaner. Use it on 3 or 4 cleaning patches to really scrub that bore. Lyman uses some kind of rust inhibitor in their bores that's a dickens to get out with anything else, yet it sure intereferes with accuracy and makes loading harder.

And long as I'm at it, the rifling in GPRs seems to be really sharp. It takes 100 or so shots to kind of smooth things down and quit cutting patches. So don't get discouraged if the rifle isn't as accurate as you've been hearing for the first little while. It will surely settle down and perform well once you get those breakin shots down the bore.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Both of my .54 GPRs will shoot one ragged hole at 50 yards with 80 grains of FFg Goex, .530 ball and pillow ticking lubed with Ballistol. Get almost the same results at 100 yards with 90 grains. I started with Pyrodex RS, which worked well. I later switched to Goex FFg, which preforms a bit better. One thing you should do is to replace the factory nipple. Get a Hot Shot or Spitfire nipple, with 6 X .75mm threads, from Dixie or Track of the Wolf. The factory nipples seems to be on the soft side and will deform shortly, causing misfires. These other nipples will solve this problem.You chose a great rifle in a great caliber :thumbsup:

 

[mykeal]

I'd start with 70 gr of Goex 2fg or Pyrodex RS if you're shooting the .54. Another option is 60 gr of 777 2fg. Goex is recommended, but sometimes hard to find as mentioned above. I use a .530 rb with .018 lubed pillow ticking. Others have good results with .535/.010.

Good advice to clean a new GPR barrel with brake cleaner initially to get the preservative oils out, and to shoot 100 rounds before trying for accurate groups. Also, replacing the nipple is recommended; I changed to a Treso 11-50-03 (Track of the Wolf catalog number RLP-A) with good results.