Recommendations for a first flintlock rifle

[matt48]

I'm looking for suggestions and recommendations on buying a first flintlock rifle.

It is going to be used for target shooting 50m standing and 100m shooting prone. Not for hunting or reenactment but I would still like to own a gun that is a resonably acurate replica of a historical rifle. I would like to shoot patched ball only.

First what type of gun? German Jäger rifle? British Baker rifle? American Longrifle? What caliber, barrel lenght, weight and twist? Which sights?

And second where to get the gun? Which manufacturer or gunsmith? Or maybe DIY?

Looking forward to your advice!

Thank you, Matt

 

[Grenadier1758]

With the proofing laws in Europe, you are most likely looking at a Pedersoli Rifle. They have several well regarded target rifles listed on their web site. Pedersoli is one of the sponsoring advertisers on the Forum.

 

[matt48]

Yes, Pedersoli would be an obvious choice. But I first need to decide what kind of rifle I want.

Proofing is required but it is not impossible to have a rifle tested and proofed locally. So I think I should be pretty free to choose.

As far as American flintlock rifles are concerned there are a few dealers that offer to import them and they take care of the regulations as well.

 

[Bushfire]

Can flintlock muzzleloaders be used for hunting in Germany?

I'd personally look at a jäger if you're from that part of the world. It suits Europe and the America's.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

The pedosorry I had was pure junk, the ones Ive seen friends buy were the same way.
Yet one friend got a real good one. We call it buying a pig in a poke.

resonably acurate replica of a historical rifle.

Yeah right. Jager by Chambers would be my first choice. 1803 Harper's Ferry by The Rifle Shoppe would be my second choice.

Getting parts to Europe is easier than importing a rifle.

 

[matt48]

Yeah right. Jager by Chambers would be my first choice. 1803 Harper's Ferry by The Rifle Shoppe would be my second choice.

Thank you for those suggestions!

Just to make sure I understand correctly: It is Jim Chambers? This rifle: Jim Chambers Flintlocks ?

I like both rifles very much!

I'm not sure I would feel confident to attempt a build myself. Are there builders that can be recommendend if I wanted to commision a rifle based on those kits?

 

[user 34300]

Kibler woodsrunner, if you can. Also consider the Kibler SMR. The SMR in 40 cal is my rifle of choice for club shoots. I like them so much that I have to 40s, one cap one flint. I had to make the caplock and drum from scratch. Very long barrels are and advantage in calm air but a disadvantage on windy days.

TRS parts sets are not suitable for a beginner. It takes decades of experience and a well equipped shop to make rifle out of them. Chambers kits were the best available until Kibler came along.

 

[SOLANCO]

A Kibler kit would be my first choice.

 

[TDM]

Agree with @Scota@4570 and @SOLANCO.

 

[matt48]

How do the Chambers and Kibler kits compare in quality (locks!) and ease of build?

What caliber would you prefer?

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

How do the Chambers and Kibler kits compare in quality (locks!) and ease of build?

What caliber would you prefer?

Kibler would be hard pressed to find a better lock imop he makes a great product from start to finish. His kits are very easy to do. Pro: his woods runner kit is all pre-drilled for everything some call it a "snap-together kit", his SMR kit the holes in wood are pre-drilled you just need to drill through the barrel tabs etc. Same with the Colonial kit.
Chambers is top quality as well and he pretty much mastered the Siler Lock. But the kits require much more work like you need to cut sights dovetails, drill and tap for flash hole line, etc etc Pro: To chambers is there more of an option available, but tons more work.

I have built both and if not experienced start with a Kibler, then work your way up to a Chambers

 

[TDM]

How do the Chambers and Kibler kits compare in quality (locks!) and ease of build?

What caliber would you prefer?

The Chambers kit will be a more involved build. The Chambers locks have always set the bar for quality, especially when Jim was personally making them. Now you really can’t do better than a Kibler lock. Since you plan only target shooting I’d suggest either a .40 or .45

 

[Grenadier1758]

The biggest drawback to the Kibler kit is that the barrels are not serial numbered and that may prove to be a difficult import. It may be worthwhile to contact Kibler to see if they can export to Germany.

 

[springfield art]

I'm looking for suggestions and recommendations on buying a first flintlock rifle.

It is going to be used for target shooting 50m standing and 100m shooting prone. Not for hunting or reenactment but I would still like to own a gun that is a resonably acurate replica of a historical rifle. I would like to shoot patched ball only.

First what type of gun? German Jäger rifle? British Baker rifle? American Longrifle? What caliber, barrel lenght, weight and twist? Which sights?

And second where to get the gun? Which manufacturer or gunsmith? Or maybe DIY?

Looking forward to your advice!

Thank you, Matt

Nice American long rifle.

 

[tenngun]

What are the laws on ml for hunting in Germany. I understand some countries have an energy requirement that is out of ml power rates.
In Arkansas when I lived there a .40 was ok for hunting deer, that’s pretty animic, but tons of deer have been taken humanely with them. Even a .54 with a mighty charge might not pare some energy requirements.
You may need a conical to make the grade, but round ball guns don’t shoot real well with conicals.
It’s hard to give advice from a state that has legal atl-atl hunting, for areas that have perhaps higher requirements

 

[hanshi]

A Kibler Woodsrunner kit would be my choice and that's what I recommend. With the target shooting you have planned the very minimum caliber is a .45. But if I got a Woodsrunner I'd get the .54 and it will even be lighter than smaller calibers. Parts are top of the line, so no worry there. TVM(uzzleloading) also makes a vey good kit for the amateur to finish. From either source you could opt for a "rifle-in-the-white" and all you'd have to do is stain and finish the stock and blue/brown the barrel or even leave armory bright like many originals.

 

[wiscoaster]

Avoid Traditions. That's all the advice I've got.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

I'm looking for suggestions and recommendations on buying a first flintlock rifle.

It is going to be used for target shooting 50m standing and 100m shooting prone. Not for hunting or reenactment but I would still like to own a gun that is a resonably acurate replica of a historical rifle. I would like to shoot patched ball only.

First what type of gun? German Jäger rifle? British Baker rifle? American Longrifle? What caliber, barrel lenght, weight and twist? Which sights?

And second where to get the gun? Which manufacturer or gunsmith? Or maybe DIY?

Looking forward to your advice!

Thank you, Matt

If you plan to do much prone shooting you should eliminate the American Longrifle from your list. The butt stock design works well for offhand shooting but is a poor design for prone shooting. SMRs are like pickle forks. Fire one prone and you'll learn how a gerkin feels.

 

[matt48]

Thank you all very much for your recommendations!

The Woodsrunner is a very attractive rifle indeed. I have writen them an e-mail asking if they would ship to Germany. Maybe they have some experience wether that is a problem or not already.

I take the comment about the suitability of the Longrifle for prone shooting seriously but also think that worst case I just have to get another rifle for that ;-)

On YT I watched this video:



My take aways where

+ very pretty gun
+ nicely balanced
+ accurate
+ seems a resonably light gun
+ I like the walnut stock

- loading a bit more involved (than a smooth bore); maybe also because of the long barrel

 

[Grenadier1758]

Loading a rifle with a long 42" (115 cm) or longer barrel is not really more involved than loading a rifle of 32" (80 cm) other than the muzzle is a little higher at the loading bench. One can always lean the barrel over to reach the muzzle. Even with a sturdy loading rod, use short strokes pushing the rod to load a ball. The one long stroke to load a ball looks impressive, but that's a good way to break a rod and maybe impale that rod through one's hand.