I've read alot about reloading while on the run, but nothing I've read says specificly how this was done. Obviously I understand the premis but would like to see how someone like Sam Brady or Lewis Wtzel specicly did it. If anyone knows Please post. Thanx
reloading on the run
- Thread starter amarko
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Thats not somethin I'd want to do today, hmmm come to think of it I couldn't if I wanted to. :haha:
Anyways, think you'd find these guys just dropped powder and ball without a patch, primed and fired at the nearest Indian. Hopedfor the best.
Anyways, think you'd find these guys just dropped powder and ball without a patch, primed and fired at the nearest Indian. Hopedfor the best.
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There are more than one danger that comes from this practice. There is little to no need of it today, and should be discouraged.
Obviously something that should only be done when your life depends on it.
paulvallandigham
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This question comes up alot with Newbies, and people who know very little about the inherent risks and dangers involved with MLers. My gun club used to put on public demonstrations, and we spent at least 20 minutes every time, showing how this is done and explaining why we aren't going to do that.
In a nutshell, NOTHING was measured, or tightly fit. That means, If you are loading a true RIFLE- historically they were usually using Muskets( smoothbores)-- You dump unmeasured amounts of powder down the Barrel from a Powder HORN.
The fact that a remaining ember in the barrel might light off that powder and the fire produced might travel out the muzzle an into the powder horn, turning the horn into a hand grenade was a RISK that you took ONLY because the Indians were charging you anyway!
You didn't patch the ball you put down the barrel. Instead you spit or put the ball in the muzzle, and then thumped the butt of the stock on the ground or something solid( your saddle if you are horseback), to "help" gravity seat the ball- you hoped- on the powder charge. If the ball didn't seat on the powder, it might act like any bore obstruction, whereby the barrel would bulge, or rupture, injuring you, or killing you!
It was a RISK you ONLY took because the Indians were attacking you.
Because you are NOT using your gun to fend off attacking Indians who are going to kill you if you don't get another load in that gun in time to shoot them, THERE IS NO EXCUSE to even consider loading a gun this way, NOW.
Safety always comes first, and last, when handling dangerous tools.
At my club we have Range Officers assigned to the line, and one of their appointed tasks is to watch how members load their guns before shooting. They look for any evidence that a member has failed to seat his ball down on the powder.
I caught a new guy doing just that on his 3rd shot, and stopped him.( He was trying to shoot without cleaning his barrel between shots.) I showed him what he did incorrectly, showed him how to correct it, and how to prevent that problem in the future. He thanked me profusely, and has never made that mistake again. In fact, he became one of the safest- and most safety conscious -- shooters in the club.
Loading a smoothbore musket " Fast" or " ON the Run", was much easier, and less fraught with danger of having a ball NOT seat on the barrel, because the diameter of the balls used in most such muskets was much smaller than what we use today, and the patching used with that ball was much thicker than what we use today. That allowed much more room between the bore diameter and the diameter of the ball when the patch was omitted in use, allowing the ball to seat, often in even dirty barrels.
The Bottom line, is DON'T do this kind of loading today.
You are violating safety rules we all learn and adhere to for our own safety. You are voiding the warranties on your gun that the manufacturer gives, so that if your gun is ONLY damaged, you are going to be replacing it on your own dime! And, of course, the danger you put yourself in extends to anyone around you when you fire the gun after " loading on the run".
Its one thing to have so little personal regard for your own body and life. Its quite another to knowingly engage in conduct that is dangerous and reckless, and causes harm or death to another. That behavior CROSSES THE LINE from negligence, to CRIMINAL. I don't think the guy you look at in the morning in the mirror, when you shave, smiles back at you, and says, " Lets go out and blow up a gun, and try to kill someone today!"
To demonstrate " loading on the run" we would still do all the steps we normally do in loading our gun, but simply explain each step we are doing that would have been omitted, and why it insures that our gun is safe to fire:
- We cleaned and dried the barrel FIRST- with a damp patch, to make sure there were now burning embers from the last shot.
- We then measured out a load of Powder into our hand, or powder measure, closed the powder horn, and then poured the powder down the barrel, explaining what I have described above, and stressing how dangerous pouring powder directly from a powder source into a fired gunbarrel is.
-We would take a round ball for our rifle, and put it into the barrel, thump the stock on the ground to " help " gravity, BUT THEN, we would use the Ramrod to CHECK to see that the ball was seated on the powder.
-ONLY WHEN THOSE STEPS were done, would we fire the gun at a target close enough for the audience to see. The ball rarely hit close to POINT OF AIM.
Someone then asked about shooting Ramrods at the Indians, and bad guys.
-We would hand him a lead ball in one hand, and the ramrod- usually a steel one from a Brown Bess-- in the other hand, so that he could discover how much heavier that ramrod was than even that large ball! Then we would ask if he would like to fire that ramrod out the gun with the stock against HIS shoulder?? We never had any takers, and NO requests that we show what would happen. We would not have done so even if asked, as its truly a DANGEROUS STUNT,likely to hurt the shooter, AND damage the gun, and Ramrod. :shocked2: :thumbsup: :cursing:
Welcome to the forum. :surrender:
In a nutshell, NOTHING was measured, or tightly fit. That means, If you are loading a true RIFLE- historically they were usually using Muskets( smoothbores)-- You dump unmeasured amounts of powder down the Barrel from a Powder HORN.
The fact that a remaining ember in the barrel might light off that powder and the fire produced might travel out the muzzle an into the powder horn, turning the horn into a hand grenade was a RISK that you took ONLY because the Indians were charging you anyway!
You didn't patch the ball you put down the barrel. Instead you spit or put the ball in the muzzle, and then thumped the butt of the stock on the ground or something solid( your saddle if you are horseback), to "help" gravity seat the ball- you hoped- on the powder charge. If the ball didn't seat on the powder, it might act like any bore obstruction, whereby the barrel would bulge, or rupture, injuring you, or killing you!
It was a RISK you ONLY took because the Indians were attacking you.
Because you are NOT using your gun to fend off attacking Indians who are going to kill you if you don't get another load in that gun in time to shoot them, THERE IS NO EXCUSE to even consider loading a gun this way, NOW.
Safety always comes first, and last, when handling dangerous tools.
At my club we have Range Officers assigned to the line, and one of their appointed tasks is to watch how members load their guns before shooting. They look for any evidence that a member has failed to seat his ball down on the powder.
I caught a new guy doing just that on his 3rd shot, and stopped him.( He was trying to shoot without cleaning his barrel between shots.) I showed him what he did incorrectly, showed him how to correct it, and how to prevent that problem in the future. He thanked me profusely, and has never made that mistake again. In fact, he became one of the safest- and most safety conscious -- shooters in the club.
Loading a smoothbore musket " Fast" or " ON the Run", was much easier, and less fraught with danger of having a ball NOT seat on the barrel, because the diameter of the balls used in most such muskets was much smaller than what we use today, and the patching used with that ball was much thicker than what we use today. That allowed much more room between the bore diameter and the diameter of the ball when the patch was omitted in use, allowing the ball to seat, often in even dirty barrels.
The Bottom line, is DON'T do this kind of loading today.
You are violating safety rules we all learn and adhere to for our own safety. You are voiding the warranties on your gun that the manufacturer gives, so that if your gun is ONLY damaged, you are going to be replacing it on your own dime! And, of course, the danger you put yourself in extends to anyone around you when you fire the gun after " loading on the run".
Its one thing to have so little personal regard for your own body and life. Its quite another to knowingly engage in conduct that is dangerous and reckless, and causes harm or death to another. That behavior CROSSES THE LINE from negligence, to CRIMINAL. I don't think the guy you look at in the morning in the mirror, when you shave, smiles back at you, and says, " Lets go out and blow up a gun, and try to kill someone today!"
To demonstrate " loading on the run" we would still do all the steps we normally do in loading our gun, but simply explain each step we are doing that would have been omitted, and why it insures that our gun is safe to fire:
- We cleaned and dried the barrel FIRST- with a damp patch, to make sure there were now burning embers from the last shot.
- We then measured out a load of Powder into our hand, or powder measure, closed the powder horn, and then poured the powder down the barrel, explaining what I have described above, and stressing how dangerous pouring powder directly from a powder source into a fired gunbarrel is.
-We would take a round ball for our rifle, and put it into the barrel, thump the stock on the ground to " help " gravity, BUT THEN, we would use the Ramrod to CHECK to see that the ball was seated on the powder.
-ONLY WHEN THOSE STEPS were done, would we fire the gun at a target close enough for the audience to see. The ball rarely hit close to POINT OF AIM.
Someone then asked about shooting Ramrods at the Indians, and bad guys.
-We would hand him a lead ball in one hand, and the ramrod- usually a steel one from a Brown Bess-- in the other hand, so that he could discover how much heavier that ramrod was than even that large ball! Then we would ask if he would like to fire that ramrod out the gun with the stock against HIS shoulder?? We never had any takers, and NO requests that we show what would happen. We would not have done so even if asked, as its truly a DANGEROUS STUNT,likely to hurt the shooter, AND damage the gun, and Ramrod. :shocked2: :thumbsup: :cursing:
Welcome to the forum. :surrender:
I've read that the old way was to put a ball in the cupped palm of your hand, cover it with powder, pick out the ball, drop the powder and ball down the barrel and thump the rifle butt on the ground to seat the ball....if you have your ramrod at hand poke the ball to make sure it's down. You won't bulge a barrel with that amount of powder and an unpatched ball....in my opinion. If it's the first shot of the day the ball won't have any burned powder residue to help hold it down, so keep the muzzle up.
I was setting up camp at rendezvous once and a fellow came by asking if I could lend him a powder measure. I didn't have a spare. A bit later, at registration, he came by and asked the ladies if they had a powder measure he could borrow. They didn't. Some time later we all heard a big bang at the fouling/sighting target and people started running to the sound of yelling. A shooter's right forearm was squirting blood while he was busy going into shock. His newly two piece rifle was lying on the ground. He got his arm bound up and was hustled into a car and went off in a search for medical help. Word got around that right after the bang the shooter was asked if he had used a measure. He said yes. A young fellow about 12 said later that he watched the guy pour powder down the barrel right from from his horn. The stock broke at the wrist, the rifle came back and the jagged stock gashed his arm badly. He dropped the front end of the rifle then, on top of the butt that was on the ground.
I was setting up camp at rendezvous once and a fellow came by asking if I could lend him a powder measure. I didn't have a spare. A bit later, at registration, he came by and asked the ladies if they had a powder measure he could borrow. They didn't. Some time later we all heard a big bang at the fouling/sighting target and people started running to the sound of yelling. A shooter's right forearm was squirting blood while he was busy going into shock. His newly two piece rifle was lying on the ground. He got his arm bound up and was hustled into a car and went off in a search for medical help. Word got around that right after the bang the shooter was asked if he had used a measure. He said yes. A young fellow about 12 said later that he watched the guy pour powder down the barrel right from from his horn. The stock broke at the wrist, the rifle came back and the jagged stock gashed his arm badly. He dropped the front end of the rifle then, on top of the butt that was on the ground.
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paulvallandigham
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Unlike today, Guns in the day were kept with a charge and load in the barrel at all times. Only priming the flash pan, or capping the nipple was reserved until the gun was to be removed from home. In camp, guns were kept primed, or capped, as well, for self defense during the night.
The old method of determining the "right " powder charge for a given diameter bore, by pouring powder over a ball held in the palm of the hand until the ball was covered was the only method available to poor people who had NO kind of powder measure available. For the medium calibers-- .45-.50-- The method works reasonably well. For small calibers, you can get too much powder. For larger calibers, you can get too little with this method. But that even depends on the size and shape of the palm of the hand that is holding the ball. If a palm is allowed to " cup" you will reduce the volume of powder derived from using this old method.
So, consistency makes it difficult to advise anyone to try this, unless you first transfer the powder from your palm, to a scale to find out exactly how much powder you are putting into that gun barrel.
Now, If the Indians are coming at you, you don't even bother pouring the powder in your hand. You should be expected to suffer from Tachy-Psych Syndrome( Tunnel vision, Auditory Exclusion, Wet palms, Dry mouth inability to do fine motor muscle skills, etc.), and your hand will be shaking too much trying to perform fine motor coordination skills to be able to pour most of that powder down the muzzle. That is why the powder was poured down the muzzle directly from the horn. We are not told if the shooter first blew air down the barrel to extinquish embers, and clear the vent.
And, we are still burdened by that LOTM movie, with Daniel Day Lewis as Hawkeye, loading his rifle on the run. Everyone wants a copy of his rifle, even if its not historically correct for the time period and that battle. Everyone, it seems, thinks he can load the gun On the Run, "just like that fella did in that movie pitcher".
All we can hope is that the injuries are not life threatening. :shocked2:
:surrender: :hatsoff:
The old method of determining the "right " powder charge for a given diameter bore, by pouring powder over a ball held in the palm of the hand until the ball was covered was the only method available to poor people who had NO kind of powder measure available. For the medium calibers-- .45-.50-- The method works reasonably well. For small calibers, you can get too much powder. For larger calibers, you can get too little with this method. But that even depends on the size and shape of the palm of the hand that is holding the ball. If a palm is allowed to " cup" you will reduce the volume of powder derived from using this old method.
So, consistency makes it difficult to advise anyone to try this, unless you first transfer the powder from your palm, to a scale to find out exactly how much powder you are putting into that gun barrel.
Now, If the Indians are coming at you, you don't even bother pouring the powder in your hand. You should be expected to suffer from Tachy-Psych Syndrome( Tunnel vision, Auditory Exclusion, Wet palms, Dry mouth inability to do fine motor muscle skills, etc.), and your hand will be shaking too much trying to perform fine motor coordination skills to be able to pour most of that powder down the muzzle. That is why the powder was poured down the muzzle directly from the horn. We are not told if the shooter first blew air down the barrel to extinquish embers, and clear the vent.
And, we are still burdened by that LOTM movie, with Daniel Day Lewis as Hawkeye, loading his rifle on the run. Everyone wants a copy of his rifle, even if its not historically correct for the time period and that battle. Everyone, it seems, thinks he can load the gun On the Run, "just like that fella did in that movie pitcher".
All we can hope is that the injuries are not life threatening. :shocked2:
:surrender: :hatsoff:
