Rifled pistols ?

[Celticstoneman]

Folks,
Please overlook this if it is simply too dumb to be believed. Watching "The Patriot " this morning I saw an excellent view of a pistol that was being loaded. Almost unquestionably it was rifled. So if the year is 1780 or earlier would there have been rifled hand guns? Thanks.
John

 

[hawkeye2]

Yes but I'm sure they were just using an available OTC pistol as a prop. Smoothbores would have been much more prevalent.

 

[Justin.44]

Although I do love that movie, that's hardly the most inaccurate thing about it!

 

[Celticstoneman]

Although I do love that movie, that's hardly the most inaccurate thing about it!

You do have that right!

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Come on now! We just like to see the Guns go off!

 

[necchi]

That darn hollywood! They sure can mess things up!
You oughta see what they did to Jeremiah Johnson!
(both versions!)
We had a member here that hand made furniture for the movie "Patriot". He was a local when they where filming. They had found him as a local, payed him well and kept him busy for weeks.
IIRC, his stuff is seen in the film as the items inside the camp tents of officers
A VVet he was,, a local hick that loved his wife an family, and knew his stuff.
God rest you Sgt,,,.
You sure had some good stories to share with us,,

 

[TexiKan]

I always note they throw away the ramrod after they load. Ha!

 

[JCKelly]

Almost all flintlock pistols, especially English military, were smoothbore. I sincerely doubt that any English officer carried a rifled pistol.
The rifled pistols I've personally seen are American "Kentucky" pistols made, usually, by gunsmiths of German ancestry. I don't really know if rifling, grooves with a twist, was invented in Germany but my impression is the Germans rifled everything they could.
Here is one example, of a .~50 cal German pistol, made about 1750. I bought it at a Michigan Antique Arms Collector show on Groundhog Day, 2019, in large part because it is indeed rifled. Has a 7-sided bore, kinda like a Whitworth bore with one more side, and rifling grooves.

 

[springfield art]

Folks,
Please overlook this if it is simply too dumb to be believed. Watching "The Patriot " this morning I saw an excellent view of a pistol that was being loaded. Almost unquestionably it was rifled. So if the year is 1780 or earlier would there have been rifled hand guns? Thanks.
John

Good eye, I believe some pistols were rifled at that time, I mean they had the knowledge from making rifles. That was a good film. I know people that made some of the equipage and uniform bits for the production company; buttons, etc.

 

[toot]

I always note they throw away the ramrod after they load. Ha!

that way they don't shoot it out of the barell.

 

[TFoley]

'The Patriot' was about as accurate a portrayal of the reality as 'Braveheart'. Even had the same over-earnest English-hating lead star.

 

[nightwolf1974]

Yes but I'm sure they were just using an available OTC pistol as a prop. Smoothbores would have been much more prevalent.

BUT, his pistol was something he had from his early military days...unless he bought a more modern pistol to keep in his trunk of souvenirs....

 

[Britsmoothy]

Almost all flintlock pistols, especially English military, were smoothbore. I sincerely doubt that any English officer carried a rifled pistol.
The rifled pistols I've personally seen are American "Kentucky" pistols made, usually, by gunsmiths of German ancestry. I don't really know if rifling, grooves with a twist, was invented in Germany but my impression is the Germans rifled everything they could.
Here is one example, of a .~50 cal German pistol, made about 1750. I bought it at a Michigan Antique Arms Collector show on Groundhog Day, 2019, in large part because it is indeed rifled. Has a 7-sided bore, kinda like a Whitworth bore with one more side, and rifling grooves.
View attachment 93219
View attachment 93220

That is an excellent photograph of the muzzle and it intrigues me!

I have a long held belief the manner by which the German early gun makers grooved their muzzles was so that they could steer the ball or regulate the point of impact by simply relieving ever so slightly one groove more than the others.
Can you see evidence of that on your pistol?

 

[tenngun]

Rifles seemed to have been invented in north Italy, but only caught in in Central Europe for years.
If Germans et al could bore it they rifled it.
The first German rifles were short, then they favored a style of pistols that looked like miniature rifles.
English and French made purpose built dueling pistols by 1750 and some of these had ‘false rifleing, meaning rifled to the last two inches then smooth.
We are told that was to get a one up on the enemy. As it was rifled but no one would see it thinking it was a less likely to hit at range smoothbore
I THINK it was nothing but a coned bore as pistols are more difficult to load.
It’s possible Gibson could have had a rifled gun, when smooth for a pistol would have been more common.
We could write a book on what’s wrong historically with the Patriot but it is one of my favs
300 and pirates of the Caribbean too
May the guardian angels of history nerds forgive me

 

[Artificer]

View attachment 93220

What also is really neat is the ORIGINAL Rammer with the period ferrule on the end. That brass nail or stud is there to expand the end of the Rammer and keep the ferrule in place.

Gus