roger and spencer

[Poor Private]

I disagree. I found evidence that 5-800 were sold into the civilian market. And that at least one was issued, and brought home. It has the markings inside the grips of who and when. I am sure with a bit of digging I and anyone else can find this. Never say never! I no longer have my documentation since I gave it away to the feller who bought mine from me.

 

[hawkeye2]

There is no dispute that there were about 800 Rogers & Spencers sold to the civilian market but that has nothing to do with their use in the Spanish and American War and it's quite possible that these were not available for purchase in time to see any action in the Civil War. The Government received their contracted revolvers between Jan. 30, 1865 and Sept. 26, 1865 ("A CATALOG OF FIREARMS FOR THE COLLECTOR" by L.D. Satterlee). It is generally accepted that these went directly into storage. Would this be the R&S that you were thinking of as having been carried in the War:
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/rogers-spencer-revolver.htm

'The inside of LEFT GRIP reads "E. Lambert VOL 30 MASS carried this Revolver in Civil War November 14, 1861 August 15, 1866"' This is clearly not possible since he could not have obtained the revolver by issue, if indeed he actually did, prior to January, 1865 and Lee surrendered on
April 9, 1865. "Lambert enlisted when he was only 16 years old and served as a drummer in the Regiment from 1861 until 1866." Given that it is unlikely he carried a revolver. As production began sometime in 1863 it is remotely possible he might have obtained a civilian revolver sometime after that but I believe it is so unlikely as to not merit mention. There is a theory that this revolver was purchased in the early 1900's by Lambert as a "War Souvenir" and that the markings were added at that time. It's interesting that the seller's description makes no mention of inspector's marks on the metal parts or the grips.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Read and reread the seller's description and it appears this is definitely one of the 800 civilian production. The sellers mentions numbers on "barrel, cylinder, frame and loading lever" which would have been viewers or assembly markings typical of all revolver production of the era. It would lack any sort of government inspection or proof markings since it didn't belong to the government contract. How and when Edward Lambert obtained it is the part I"m having trouble with. My take is that the seller is making a lot of unsubstantiated claims about this revolver using Lambert's service record to justify claims he can't prove. Union drummers were seldom armed outside of musician's swords, and even if private purchase, it's doubtful Lambert carried it in action. This is not to say it never happened, but chances are thin. The Rogers & Spencer revolver was never issued by the Federal government to troops and the entire 5,000 gun lot was sold to Francis Bannerman & Son in 1901.

 

[hawkeye2]

I believe like we are pretty much in agreement on this. It sounds like the seller is pretty inventive and I'm surprised he hasn't claimed that the drummer boy threw down his drum at Shiloh to pick up the fallen colors and dash into the foray with them while firing his R&S! :bull: It is quite possible the described revolver is a civilian gun. A contract piece would be marked on many of its parts with a single letter, a "B" if I remember, and the inspector's initials on the grips. I'm not sure a drummer would have even had a musician's sword and probably didn't carry anything more dangerous than a Barlow

 

[Wes/Tex]

You're probably right...nearly every picture I've seen shows nothing hanging at a drummer's side of even in his belt...save for this tough little guy! It's heart breaking to think how typical he may have been....some less than 10 years old are recorded on muster rolls.

http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedImages/historic/info/archaeology/ARExhibitDrummerBoy.jpg

 

[Zonie]

I think the photo in your link Wes should have been titled, "Exhibit Dummer Boy" :shake:

:rotf:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Yeah, I know...gun may have been a prop but you never know....might have been one tough little yankee! :wink: :haha:

 

[Artificer]

Well, there was one really tough little Yankee Drummer Boy who wound up being promoted to Brigadier General before he retired and Major General after he retired.

I came out of Marine Corps Boot Camp as a Buck Private right at three months after my 18th birthday and thought I had done well to make Sergeant (E5) two months before my 20th birthday - making me a 19 year old Sergeant. However a few years later I realized I did not hold a candle to this Drummer Boy, who was also the youngest Lad to ever be promoted to Sergeant in the U.S. Army.

His name was John Klem (at birth) and Clem as it was later spelled. Though Wiki often screws history up, they pretty much got it right on this Lad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Clem

Gus

 

[cynthialee]

It seems to me that a drummer that was a child had some advantages:

Small target

Adults around him are prone to primal instincts to protect a child.

Soldiers who encounter the child are likely to have an instinct moment of hesitation to kill a child that may result in the child living through the encounter; and in the case of a child armed with a single shot pistol like in the picture posted, that hesitation moment may give the child that second to react.

Youth are much more agile than the average adult.

 

[Artificer]

Drummer boys in earlier times through the Un-Civil War, in all European and American Armies often were Orphans. In many cases being a Drummer Boy might have saved a child from starvation or been preferable to a "Work House" even though death was possibly more of a risk in the military. Still, a lot of children, orphans or not; died of diseases associated with lack of good food or other diseases before, during and beyond the Un-Civil War.

You are correct that original accounts from many time periods mention opposing forces did not target Drummer Boys. Besides the humanity of it, there was the more practical reason not to waste ammunition on someone who was not shooting back. Yet, Drummer Boys did die of small arms and artillery fire in the wars.

Maybe the best way to describe it was that by being a Drummer Boy, a child might possibly improve his chances of survival.

Gus

 

[Wes/Tex]

Many years ago my mother sent me an article about the numbers of teen and pre-teen youngsters who served and died during our Civil War, many as drummer boys. The numbers, as I recall, were horrific to our modern minds...I remember being astounded at the totals. Wish I knew where it's gone, the numbers make you see past the 'glory' to the real 'horror' of those sad times.

North or South...they too gave their all as only children can.
http://www.teenherobooks.com/files/4023092/uploaded/LoC CW drummers.jpg
http://dotcw.com/wp-content/upload...ate-infantry-uniform-possibly-drummer-boy.jpg

 

[api]

Hello.
Which powder loads and ball size do you recommend for original Rogers & Spencer revolver?

Here is my "guy" :v
http://aparapi.rajce.idnes.cz/Foto_revolver/#IMG_3999.jpg

 

[Kansas Jake]

Wow, in an original I have no idea. I have a Euroarms replica and generally use about 25 grains of 3f black powder with a homemade lubed felt wad and a .454 round ball. 451's are a little loose for my gun. Originals may be a little different.