Rollin' My Own.......

[William P Sepessy]

OK, yesterday I took four guns out to test the nitrated paper benefits. Two 61 Navies and two Dragoons, all Ubertis. I did this to test for both 36 and 44's. For each pair I shot one gun exclusively with nitrated paper cartridges and the other plain, non nitrated curling papers. Each gun was shot 36 times to simulate six full cylinders. There was immediate ignition with no miss-fires or hang-fires.
The real intention was to determine how much difference, if any, of paper/ash residue remained in each gun. Upon cleaning the guns this morning, I could not detect any difference at all in the four guns. All six chambers of each gun contained a small amount of paper residue, the same as I have come to expect over the last few years of shooting non nitrated curling papers.
What does this limited experiment prove? Maybe nothing, but at least in my case I don't think I'll be going to all that extra trouble to nitrate the papers.

 

[rodwha]

I’m surprised you found paper shards despite nitrating. In my very limited testing I found the paper shards didn’t cause an issue and I’ve never had an ignition issue and I generally have a twisty tail along the base (that I trim short). I don’t see a real need to nitrate either.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

OK, yesterday I took four guns out to test the nitrated paper benefits. Two 61 Navies and two Dragoons, all Ubertis. I did this to test for both 36 and 44's. For each pair I shot one gun exclusively with nitrated paper cartridges and the other plain, non nitrated curling papers. Each gun was shot 36 times to simulate six full cylinders. There was immediate ignition with no miss-fires or hang-fires.
The real intention was to determine how much difference, if any, of paper/ash residue remained in each gun. Upon cleaning the guns this morning, I could not detect any difference at all in the four guns. All six chambers of each gun contained a small amount of paper residue, the same as I have come to expect over the last few years of shooting non nitrated curling papers.
What does this limited experiment prove? Maybe nothing, but at least in my case I don't think I'll be going to all that extra trouble to nitrate the papers.

My thoughts exactly. It’s mostly a waste of time.

 

[snubnose57]

I use tea bags, go off every time, no need to nitrate, and so far no residue in the chambers.

 

[.44 associate]

I have just begun experimenting with paper cartridges. I am wondering if I should try placing a lubricated wad between the powder and bullet, as I normally would when loading loose. I also am concerned that would contaminate the powder. Thoughts?

 

[rshveyda]

I have just begun experimenting with paper cartridges. I am wondering if I should try placing a lubricated wad between the powder and bullet, as I normally would when loading loose. I also am concerned that would contaminate the powder. Thoughts?

I use a wonder wad between the powder and the ball and have never had problems with it contaminating the powder, even after 6 or 8 months of storing the cartridges at room temps. The lube in a Wonder Wad is pretty much a solid and impregnated inside the wad at room temps. A wad with a more liquidy lube might be a problem though. Without any wad I would be afraid powder could end up coating the ball and be above it after loading and contribute to a possible chain fire, as I don't seal my cylinders with any kin of grease after loading. I do make sure I'm using a ball big enough to leave a shaved off ring of lead after being seated in the cylinder.

I run a bit of glue down one long edge of the paper. Then I wrap the paper around a tapered dowel, form the closed end of the cone by folding it over and dabbing it with cheap school glue stick. This forms a cone that I set upright in a loading block/ammo storage box. A measure of power goes in first, followed by a wonder wad. I use the back end of the dowel with a tiny bit of lube on it to pick up the wad and lower it straight down on top of the powder. Drop in a ball and twist closed the top of the paper which makes a tail that I snip short.

I've never had the cap fail to punch through the paper and ignite the powder. The paper tail above the ball usually tears when you ram the ball home, but it's easy to pick out if it doesn't fall out on its own. The cartridges only marginally speed up loading at the range, but they are fun to make and use.

 

[Eutycus]

I was just about to open a new thread about coffee filter paper cartridges. As of this writing I haven't even read all of this thread yet.Acouple of the questions that I was going to open with I'll just add to this one. Is it really necessary to nitrate the paper? And is a filler such as cream of wheat ever used in cartridges?oh and if nitrating is going to be done, Is there a formula for saltpeter?

 

[Carbon 6]

Is there a formula for saltpeter?

Seriously ?

Potassium nitrate (saltpeter) also called 'Chinese salt' or 'Chinese snow' is a chemical compound with the chemical formula KNO3. It is an ionic salt of potassium ions K+ and nitrate ions NO3−, and is therefore an alkali metal nitrate. It occurs in nature as a mineral, niter. It is a source of nitrogen, from which it derives its name.
In addition to KNO3, the compounds sodium nitrate (NaNO3), calcium nitrate (Ca(NO3)2), and magnesium nitrate (Mg(NO3)2) are also sometimes referred to as saltpeter.
Saltpeter is a common food preservative and additive, fertilizer, and oxidizer for fireworks and rockets. It is one of the principal ingredients in gunpowder. Potassium nitrate is used to treat asthma and in topical formulations for sensitive teeth. It was once a popular medication for lowering blood pressure.

 

[Eutycus]

Seriously ?

Potassium nitrate (saltpeter) also called 'Chinese salt' or 'Chinese snow' is a chemical compound with the chemical formula KNO3. It is an ionic salt of potassium ions K+ and nitrate ions NO3−, and is therefore an alkali metal nitrate. It occurs in nature as a mineral, niter. It is a source of nitrogen, from which it derives its name.
In addition to KNO3, the compounds sodium nitrate (NaNO3), calcium nitrate (Ca(NO3)2), and magnesium nitrate (Mg(NO3)2) are also sometimes referred to as saltpeter.
Saltpeter is a common food preservative and additive, fertilizer, and oxidizer for fireworks and rockets. It is one of the principal ingredients in gunpowder. Potassium nitrate is used to treat asthma and in topical formulations for sensitive teeth. It was once a popular medication for lowering blood pressure.

Sorry I should have been more careful in the wording. I didnt mean the actual saltpeter or potassium nitrate. I was referring to the solution that was referred to in an earlier post. Let's try this , Is there a formula (water to saltpeter ratio)for making the solution that the paper soaks in?

 

[Zonie]

Sorry I should have been more careful in the wording. I didnt mean the actual saltpeter or potassium nitrate. I was referring to the solution that was referred to in an earlier post. Let's try this , Is there a formula (water to saltpeter ratio)for making the solution that the paper soaks in?

IMO, although I can't give you an measurement value like "4 water to 1 saltpeter" what you want is a "supersaturated" mixture. That is, enough saltpeter so all of it won't dissolve in the water after mixing it for a few minutes.
If you stir it for a bit and a few SP crystals are still laying in the bottom, you've "got it".

 

[Eutycus]

IMO, although I can't give you an measurement value like "4 water to 1 saltpeter" what you want is a "supersaturated" mixture. That is, enough saltpeter so all of it won't dissolve in the water after mixing it for a few minutes.
If you stir it for a bit and a few SP crystals are still laying in the bottom, you've "got it".

Many thanks. Does the same go for the potassium nitrate or "stump killer"?

 

[Grenadier1758]

The stump killer is not the most pure form of potassium nitrate, but it will work for nitrating papers or making match cord for my match box or for the match cord for the linstocks to light the fuse in the canons.

 

[Eutycus]

Okay then, that takes care of the question on nitrating. How about the cream of wheat question? Can a filler ever be used inside the cartridge? Like between the powder and a wad or between the powder and the bullet.

 

[Erwan]

Okay then, that takes care of the question on nitrating. How about the cream of wheat question? Can a filler ever be used inside the cartridge? Like between the powder and a wad or between the powder and the bullet.

Why not ? I did a lot of times for revolvers and my Sharps cartridges, you just have to care also of the moisture if it is for a relatively long time. You can put a bit of collodion or alcohol from shellac mix on/over the paper if you don't use the cartridges promptly ...

 

[Eutycus]

The idea of COW or some other filler would be to seat the ball as near as possible to the front of the chamber and forcing cone. The use of a light powder charge (brass frame) seems like it would seat the ball deep inside the chamber if no filler were to be used.I'm having a rough time putting this into words but I hope some members out there can visualize what I'm writing about.

 

[Erwan]

The idea of COW or some other filler would be to seat the ball as near as possible to the front of the chamber and forcing cone. The use of a light powder charge (brass frame) seems like it would seat the ball deep inside the chamber if no filler were to be used.I'm having a rough time putting this into words but I hope some members out there can visualize what I'm writing about.

You can put all the necessary filler you need with only 10 grains of powder in the bottom of the cartridge, there is no problem about it and the ball will be at the top of the cylinder.

 

[Eutycus]

This is turning into a real learning experience. I find rolling paper cones a great pastime while watching TV. I haven't shot any yet but I feel paper cartridges are the way to go with cap and ball revolvers.

 

[Eutycus]

When I get these cartridges completed they will be stored in an Air Conditioned House so humidity should be a non factor.

 

[Eras Gone]

Here is how I nitrate coffee filters. There is no real "recipe". I use about 1/2 cup PN with two cups of water.

 

[beyu]

I shoot a .69 cal Charleville (reproduction) musket. I've been rolling paper cartridges from newsprint. No nitrate.

So far, I've seen no residue from the paper except maybe a very occasional smoldering bit of paper that lands on the ground in front of me. Most of the time there is no sign of paper at all.

I follow tradition in the use of the cartridge, biting off the tail, pouring the powder down the barrel and then ramming the ball and paper home.