Ruger Old Army Upgrade

[45D]

I don't believe there is a "need" for early bolt drop but am pointing out that a revolver is not out of time because . . .

If bolt drop doesn't happen "when" it's "specified" to do so, it is in fact out of time . . . because there is a spec for it.

I'm quite sure Bill Ruger knew at least as much as any of us about single action function and designed the BH with the realization that early bolt drop with a clean reset and notch clear traverse was not an operational issue.

The 3 screw BH had the same timing setup as the Colt. I mentioned that above. The cylinder will stay "clean" if it isn't mishandled ( or short stroked) . . . just like a Colt.
It's the design of the NM Rugers that made "Beauty Rings" a thing.

Adjusting the bolt to drop only in the lead cut is another example of finding a solution in search of a problem in my opinion.

"Adjusting" a bolt to drop as "specified" is adhering to manufacturers design. Because of "specs" all Colt SAA's feel basically the same. Likewise, all revolvers I work on leave here feeling the same ( it's a numbers thing).
If specs are just a mere
"suggestion" then there's no basis for argument because everyone is "right". I'm glad folks that work on aircraft see it the way I do . . .

Mike

 

[45D]

One more point I would opine about is that the Ruger design that got away from the Colt cam/bolt marriage and went to the pin/bolt relationship is more rugged and long wearing than the former.
When the Colt designs show pre lead cut, bolt drop tracks, that were not present on the new gun, the cam and/or bolt finger are wearing down but the Ruger is just as designed.

I don't know how many Rugers you've worked on but I assure you they can wear faster than you may think ( I have 11 ROA's in the shop right now). They too have a wear pattern . . .

The setup for the Colt action can pretty much do away with any wear problems . . . I can't think of a single revolver returned because of a broken bolt or worn cam. It's all in the "tuning" aspect of a correctly set up SA revolver.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Ear

If bolt drop doesn't happen "when" it's "specified" to do so, it is in fact out of time . . . because there is a spec for it.


The 3 screw BH had the same timing setup as the Colt. I mentioned that above. The cylinder will stay "clean" if it isn't mishandled ( or short stroked) . . . just like a Colt.
It's the design of the NM Rugers that made "Beauty Rings" a thing.



"Adjusting" a bolt to drop as "specified" is adhering to manufacturers design. Because of "specs" all Colt SAA's feel basically the same. Likewise, all revolvers I work on leave here feeling the same ( it's a numbers thing).
If specs are just a mere
"suggestion" then there's no basis for argument because everyone is "right". I'm glad folks that work on aircraft see it the way I do . . .

Mike

No one is denying that certain custom mods make better revolvers just that factory Ruger BHs with early bolt drop marks appear to be Ruger spec and hence it not out of time by their stadards.

 

[Smokerr]

Really? Wow.

 

[shorthair]

You might look into the old Shooting Star grips for the Ruger. Herret made them I believe.

Quite comfortable on a heavy kicker, fills the hand nicely.

 

[Smokerr]

I have my 41 S&W loaded up to the max (or did) as it was a bear gun (mostly for noise, but it truly desperate.......).

Had no issue with S&W grip and I just tested those rounds with a Labradar and they are kicking out at 1390 fps. Shot those for a lot of years.

My hand likes that S&W style grip, it just feels right for me. No issues with anyone that likes the old style grips but for me I like the ones with the ridge atop.

 

[Bad Karma]

I have my 41 S&W loaded up to the max (or did) as it was a bear gun (mostly for noise, but it truly desperate.......).

Had no issue with S&W grip and I just tested those rounds with a Labradar and they are kicking out at 1390 fps. Shot those for a lot of years.

My hand likes that S&W style grip, it just feels right for me. No issues with anyone that likes the old style grips but for me I like the ones with the ridge atop.

Ronnie G. Wells makes,grip frames for Rugers… many different designs most optimized for recoil control.

 

[shorthair]

Ronnie G. Wells makes,grip frames for Rugers… many different designs most optimized for recoil control.

I thought that a Bisley grip frame would have been sweet

 

[Bad Karma]

I got a care package from Ronnie the other day… man, I need to get to work! The frame is a copy of the 1860 Colt for the Old Model Rugers and a couple of the Bisley hammers for old army, triggers? Oh man!

 

[Smokerr]

Wild

 

[rodwha]

Here's the "thing" !
Super Blackhawk and Bisely hammers.
View attachment 322632

Here's a Bisely hammer and Bisely trigger-
View attachment 322633

Here's the Super Blackhawk hammer-
View attachment 322634

They are basically "drop in" replacements. The only adjustment I've had to do is "dress" a pawl (hand) a little. They're perfect!!

Mike

What do these hammers run? I have smaller hands with stubby digits and have long wanted a hammer I can reach better.

 

[CAPTAIN]

Love those hammers!

 

[Blackpowderart]

How does one order some of these parts. Perhaps a steal grip frame? I'm not a fan of the aluminum.

 

[45D]

What do these hammers run? I have smaller hands with stubby digits and have long wanted a hammer I can reach better.

How does one order some of these parts. Perhaps a steal grip frame? I'm not a fan of the aluminum.

RW Grip frames.

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

I'm not a fan of the aluminum.

Having come late to BP and not knowing full ROA history, I was surprised the Centennial had aluminum grips when I dissembled it.

I had to look up the ROA history as my 94 ROA had steel grips.

I like the heft of the steel grips , maybe if it was a hunting gun I would feel different. Probably not enough of a dislike to buy a different grip from it.

As a side note, the ROA Centennial Version does not like the Mag Spark setup. Not sure what is in play there but the ML 209s bulge out into the hammer slot and lock up the cylinder. No fun getting to where you can cut that off from the side or disassemble the gun and use a punch to knock it back with the hammer out.

The problem is the hammer won't move and you can't get it back and you can't capture the mainspring. I devised a work around to where I could capture the spring again but it was a pain. My clamp will do it again.

Either the hammer is bouncing back and letting the 209 bulge or its a hammer/aluminum frame interaction that allows that.

I could swap the grips between the 94 and the Centennial but right now I am going to test the 94 again and confirm things. I ran a dry test with just the 209s and no issue with the 95, but also no powder so the dynamics will change as well so will see.

 

[Notchy Bob]

New springs, and some smooth Ebony grips. I never liked medallions on grip panels. Ruger or Colt.

The ebony stocks look really good on that revolver, @OldMaineWoodsman . I don’t like medallions, either.

I have read through this interesting thread. Ruger really ought to put the Old Army back in production.

The only thing I can add, which may not be news to some of you gents but was to me, is that Kirst Konverter, LLC, makers of cartridge conversion cylinders for percussion revolvers, is now making replacement percussion cylinders for the ROA. These were reviewed by Captain George Baylor in the July 2024 SASS magazine, The Cowboy Chronicle. Captain Baylor stated that “The Kirst cylinder rotated and indexed perfectly in all seven of my ROAs. The same cannot be said for some of the Ruger cylinders.” Kirst apparently duplicated the original Ruger nipples, too. The Captain recommended SliXshot nipples for Rugers retrofitted with lighter springs, as many CAS participants like. I think this replacement cylinder by Kirst was a good idea. They aren’t cheap but may be cheaper than a good used genuine Ruger percussion cylinder, as well as being easier to find, and it sounds as if the Kirst cylinder may be better than some of the originals, anyway.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Smokerr]

Sadly the issue for Ruger is the cost. Have to figure it would be north of $750.

How many would buy vs getting a Pietta or Uberti?

I have two ROA and cylinders do not cross well in one direction. So if the Kirst solves that well done for them.

 

[Bad Karma]

The ebony stocks look really good on that revolver, @OldMaineWoodsman . I don’t like medallions, either.

I have read through this interesting thread. Ruger really ought to put the Old Army back in production.

The only thing I can add, which may not be news to some of you gents but was to me, is that Kirst Konverter, LLC, makers of cartridge conversion cylinders for percussion revolvers, is now making replacement percussion cylinders for the ROA. These were reviewed by Captain George Baylor in the July 2024 SASS magazine, The Cowboy Chronicle. Captain Baylor stated that “The Kirst cylinder rotated and indexed perfectly in all seven of my ROAs. The same cannot be said for some of the Ruger cylinders.” Kirst apparently duplicated the original Ruger nipples, too. The Captain recommended SliXshot nipples for Rugers retrofitted with lighter springs, as many CAS participants like. I think this replacement cylinder by Kirst was a good idea. They aren’t cheap but may be cheaper than a good used genuine Ruger percussion cylinder, as well as being easier to find, and it sounds as if the Kirst cylinder may be better than some of the originals, anyway.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

I have one of the Classixballistix cylinders and it is more accurate in my fixed sight stainless than the original was.

 

[Blackpowderart]

Well the thing I don't like about the aluminium is the fact that any scratch on my blue ruger shows horribly and it always seems to happen on assembly/disassembly. I read somewhere the blued ones in later years had a steel frame. Do the stainless ones all have a steel frame or was there a switch over date with the stainless ones also? My only experience is with my 2 blued 73 and 74 year models. I've never seen another in person.

 

[Smokerr]

This is my go to on ROA

http://www.rugeroldarmy.com/

Yea my 94 is not marked up but the Centennial did have marks on the Aluminum grip.

At a guess the Stainless is probably stainless grip but I don't know that for sure.