Rum

[Black Hand]

So....if potato mash is fermented and then distilled and the distilled spirits are aged in newly charred oak bbls for a period of time, would the end product be bourbon? I say yes.

I don't think so. What you have if I understand correctly is vodka. To the purists, bourbon is properly made from corn. To real purists, bourbon only, and properly comes from Bourbon County, Kentucky.

Bourbon must contain at least 51% corn.

 

[Nativearizonan]

If you can't legally label and sell it as bourbon, it isn't bourbon. You may make a bourbon-like beverage, or a faux-bourbon, but it is not bourbon.

I think you are discounting the flavor of the grain itself, anyway. An 80 proof beverage will have picked up a lot of it's flavoring from the sour mash. Only 40% of it is pure alcohol the rest is water, but that water is mingled with other volatile gases released during the heating of the fermented mash, resulting in flavors.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

151 proof Rum in MT and we can also get Everclear, which is 190 proof grain alcohol.

:haha: I was referring to the Pusser's Naval Rum. Another example is Georgia Moon moonshine and other White Whiskeys..., they should be 100 proof but are watered to 80 proof to conform to state laws. A lot of places allow for 151 and 190 alcohol, but some say they have to be sold under different names. A lot of the alcohol laws are very old. For example in some states if you break 6% alcohol by volume you are selling a "Malt Liquor", but there are plenty of ales out there that to to 8% and higher, and they are clearly not what one thinks about when using the term "Malt Liquor". :shocked2:

LD

 

[Black Hand]

I believe the Pusser's in the stores here is 80 proof and I drank it in the past until someone mentioned Mt. Gay rum. Tried the Mt. Gay and found I preferred the taste - it was smoother.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

whatever mat'l is plentiful like potatoes, various grains, corn sugar. etc, will make a mash that ferments and then is distilled...,

So....if potato mash is fermented and then distilled and the distilled spirits are aged in newly charred oak bbls for a period of time, would the end product be bourbon?

Well first, starches don't ferment. You need the enzyme in the grain, which is why grain is malted first...., allowed to start growing which turns the starch into sugar. Then the grain is baked to stop the reaction, or in some cases of bourbon the grain is quickly ground and then "mashed".

"Mashing" is when the ground grain is exposed to a warm water bath in a tub, which facilitates the enzyme to change the large starch molecules (which the yeast cannot consume) into sugar. Dextrose, Fructose, or Sucrose will work (but Lactose is also too large for yeast to consume which is why fermented milk is a bacterial action, not a yeast product).

The problem with potatoes is they don't have nearly enough of the enzyme to convert the copious amounts of starch into a sugar to ferment. SO..., you add some crushed, pale malt to the mash, or you simply add the enzyme (check your local brewing supply store) and follow the directions, and voila...., a potato wort that will ferment and then can be distilled. :grin:

Here's one typical procedure:

Clean the potatoes with a produce brush.

Cut the potatoes into small 1 inch cubes and cover them with two inches of water in a stock pot on the stove.

Turn the heat to high and boil the potatoes for 15 minutes.

Mash the potatoes with a potato masher or an electric immersion blender.

Transfer the mashed potatoes and any liquid from the stock pot into a large mash pot. We recommend transferring the potato mash to a mash bag. We recommend using the mash in a bag method for this recipe.

Add water to reach 5.5 gallons total volume. While adding water keep an eye on the temperature of the mash. The temperature after adding the water should be around 140 degrees.

Add 4 pounds of crushed malted barley to the mash bag while stirring well.

Add heat if need and hold the mash at 140 degrees for 20 minutes.

Raise the temperature of the mash to 150 while stirring.

Mash at 150 for one hour. Add heat to the mash tun while stirring as needed during the mash.

Take a gravity reading with your refractometer or hydrometer.

If the starting gravity is below 1.065 add sugar until you reached 1.065.

Use a wort chiller to cool mash to 70-75 degrees.

So then you have the foundation for a vodka.

Now as to the names, the names are based on the flavors and techniques used to produce the beverage. So you have alcohol and water. When you get up to about 40 proof, you are entering the realm of "hard liquor". The only differences are the flavors.

From a pot-still:
Maize gives you moonshine, and when aged is bourbon. Add some rye to the mix and then age, and you get "rye" whiskey.

Barley gives you potcheen, and when aged is Malt Whiskey.

Sugar cane gives you taffia, and when aged is rum
Real molasses does something very similar, but it's hard to find it these days..., the stuff sold as molasses isn't the same product it was 150 or more years ago.

Fruit wines distilled give you brandy

Grape wines distilled give you brandy, But if distilled 2x or more times often give you grappa

Agave wine distilled gives you tequila

Reflux or Rectifying stills are usually used for:
Gin which is really a vodka with juniper and other herbals added inside the still

Vodka, which the only objective is to strip the majority of the flavors from the alcohol, and then it's usually filtered through charcoal. Which means that if you distilled your corn-beer in a reflux still, and got it up above 150 proof (which a lot of "vodka" distillers do) and stripped away the corn flavors, you would change your moonshine into vodka. You could do the same with aged bourbon as the reflux still would strip away all the flavoring and effects of aging. But it doesn't work the other way 'round by starting with flavor free alcohol and then storing it in a charred cask. What you'd get is very smooth vodka :wink:

LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

op:

 

[Vaino]

Thanks for the info. Not totally convinced, but sounds like you know what you're talking about. How did you gain your info?......Fred

 

[coloradoclyde]

You might find this interesting Fred...
http://www.winemag.com/2014/06/18/new-barrel-aged-vodka/

 

[Vaino]

Thanks for the info. Really just reinforces my thoughts on distilled spirits that it can be made into various liquors using different processes. As I stated previously....cheaply priced whiskey is made from distilled spirits w/ flavor and color added....if used in mixed drinks, most people couldn't taste the difference VS a normally produced blended whiskey.

A little off topic, but there's guy in some Southern state who makes Worcestershire Sauce and ages the sauce in used bourbon bbls. People like the added bourbon flavor and he's making a good living selling it.....Fred

 

[R.C.BINGAMAN]

Your post brings back fond memories of my younger days. A very close friend whom I served in the Marines with grandfather made some excellent W.VA shine from potatoes. Woke up a few mornings on the well pump bed with the hounds way back in the West Virginia mountains. Sadly the mountain man has moved on but the memories will last for ever.

 

[nhmoose]

The Pusser's in NH is the 82 proof. [marked that on my bottle] At their site on the net they have another called gunpowder proof at 108 proof. It is not widely distributed and not to NH. NH has 151 proof rums and Everclear Just not brought in here [probably sale related as the state does every thing liquor for the profit angle]
Sipping a Heisey shot glass full as I type this Mmmmmmmmm!

 

[satx78247]

Gunpowder proof??

yours, satx

 

[nhmoose]

The proof for the supplier/sergent was that if some powder was in it, it would ignite with a match.

Here is the link for the company. http://pussersrum.com/

 

[coloradoclyde]

Fred, Potatoes can also be used in making beer and wine.....You can also "freeze" distill, a process known as "Jacking" the resultant liquor is usually added back to the parent beverage to fortify the alcohol content.

'Zum Wohl’(”˜To your health’). :wink:

 

[tenngun]

I have to say that for me anything over 100 proof looses too much flavor. Even my favorite adult beverage , beer, starts to taste like something besides beer over 6-7%

 

[Nativearizonan]

Potato Peel Booze (Homer and Jethro):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URo_nm-SEWw

 

[Loyalist Dave]

cheaply priced whiskey is made from distilled spirits w/ flavor and color added....if used in mixed drinks, most people couldn't taste the difference VS a normally produced blended whiskey.

Actually that's how the "money is made" with a lot of so called "moonshine" these days, which is really just fermented and distilled sugar water..., high proof "vodka". I put the word moonshine in quotes, as myself and Satx78247 will tell you that stuff is NOT real 'shine.


The bars keep the brand named liquor bottles when empty, and refill them with watered down bootleg alcohol that has flavor added. You can sometimes spot such a situation at a bar, if you see a person order a mixed drink with particular brand, such as a "Bacardi and Coke", and the bartender makes the drink using a Bacardi bottle, BUT when a person orders a "Double Bacardi, on the rocks" or "Bacardi, neat", if the bartender grabs a different bottle bearing the same brand name, you can safely bet the guy with the mixed drink didn't get the genuine article. Now, sometimes they simply use a legally bought, cheaper rum in the brand name bottle, but other times they use bootleg alcohol, watered down and flavored.

In fact I am told that the Bacardi family had at one time "tasters" who went to hotels and famous clubs, and ordered Bacardi-neat to ensure the real product was being sold. They may still do this???

In Europe, especially Norway and Sweden, the cost of hard liquors is very high, so they use home made water purifiers that work off of evaporation, to distill spirits. Instead of possibly tainted or brackish water, you put fermented sugar water of about 14% ABV into the device, and a little heat is added. The first thing to evaporate, and then condense is the alcohol. After following proper procedures, and discarding the methanol, a five gallon batch of fermented sugar water will give you about three quarts of 80 proof, and a quart or two of 50 proof (makes good liqueurs). Then you can add flavors. The advantage is unless there was some sort of raid while the device was being used for alcohol..., it's a water purifier, instead of a copper, pot-still. :wink: The disadvantage is instead of a few hours as with a pot still, a small batch takes about two weeks to distill, and it's not good for anything other than small batches

I, of course, am not suggesting anybody violate any local, state, nor Federal laws. :nono:

Brewhaus sells some pretty good flavorings. They've gotten better over the past 20 years. If one is going to actually distill, one needs to check local laws on possession of the equipment, as well as the activity. On the other hand if you can get a good deal on something like Club 190 grain alcohol, you can avoid the Revenue Man, and merely dilute it to 80 proof and add the flavoring of your choice. Which is quite legal, so long as you don't sell it as some other brand name.

It's not a bad idea to use flavored, diluted grain alcohol, if you plan on cooking with a lot of spirits, to save some money. Making a lot of rum-buns, don't waste the good stuff, just make up a batch of rum with diluted grain alcohol and a flavor packet. :grin:

As for my knowledge, I've done a lot of reading, plus I'm a LEO in a state where mere possession of a pot-still is a no-no :shake: , and I know a few boys in WV who make some good stuff, and finally I married a woman from Guyana (formerly British Guyana - another reason for me to be a Redcoat) and her relatives are involved in Rum down there, as well as sugar production.

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Gunpowder proof??

They would mix the alcohol with a little black powder and then light a match to it, and if it didn't burn...., it wasn't high enough proof.

Crude, but it did work for them.

The rum for the navy was often mixed with lime juice as an antiscorbutic, since it was going to be used for Grog. So about 108-110 proof was wanted, THEN the lime juice was added to the barrel in the proper quantity, which we think dropped the proof to 95-100. This kept the lime juice from spoiling since the alcohol inhibited mold and bacterial growth. So when the time came, warm/hot water and sugar were added, and voila, grog. (About 30 proof when made)

LD

 

[Vaino]

Thanks again for the info.....interesting reading....Fred

 

[R.C.BINGAMAN]

A good grade of distilled spirits as made by the old fellow mentioned in my post would burn with a bright blue flame, about a inch off the liquid. Also could not drink it from a Styrofoam cup, would eat the bottom right out of it. His name was ERN and he stated it ran from the still right at 190 proof, it amazed me how he could proof it by shaking the quart jar and watching the bubbles dissipate. Spent a fair bit of time in his presence and learnt a lot of the old mountain ways.