s gaging the wind

[dkbowyer]

Hey there. This is my first post but I've shot percussion and flint at the local shoots for several years. I want to learn to gage the wind really close. What I would like is a set of flags that are different weights so that at 5mph a light weight flag will stand up and at 10 mph a slightly heavier flag will stand up and so on. Is there such a thing out there? How do you guys figure wind speeds real close? I've guessed it for years now but want to nail that 100 yard buffalo in the lights from now on!

Thanks!!

 

[fleener]

The wind book for rifle shooters. If you want to become better, spend the money, read the book. I think you will like it, and it will help you.

I am very glad I did. I realize you are not asking to shoot 1000 yards, however, what I did was put together a simple to use table of wind speeds, wind direction for each yardage from 100 to 1,000 yards.

So I know if I have a 10 oclock wind at 8 mph I need to change my point of aim by X number of minutes at whatever yardage I am shooting at.

snapper

 

[paulvallandigham]

" The wind book for rifle shooters".

Is that the title of the book? Do you know the author's name? I would like to obtain my own copy of the book. Thank you for the information in advance. :thumbsup:

 

[necchi]

'The Wind Book for Rifle Shooters' by Miller & Cunningham, available from Paladin Press.

 

[J.D.]

It takes more than gimmicks with weighted range flags to dope the wind accurately.

I found this vid while looking for something else, but it's a good primer on doping the wind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFKUp9a_vFc&feature=related

God bless

 

[paulvallandigham]

Thanks for the information.

As to reading wind, at a distance as short as 100 yds, you need to be looking at what the wind is doing near the target.

As a general rule, its not wise to wait for the wind to go " Calm"( ie., flags drop), as that is almost always an indication that the wind is about to change-- either direction, or speed. Its better to wait and shoot in a very light wind that you CAN read, and merely compensate for the direction and velocity by either changing your adjustable sights, or by holding off the bullseye into the direction of the wind.

The Boys shooting 1000 yds, and beyond, have to find a way to put a flag up 50 or more feet in the air to get a read on the direction and speed of the wind mid-range at the height of the arcs( trajectory). Flags at ground level provide little to no useful information to these long range shooters.

 

[Tom Compton]

Better to use one set of flags and learn the way of them. If normal wind is somewhat high, don't make em too light or they will be standing out all of the time and you cannot tell if 15mph or 25 or?

 

[fleener]

The wind closest to the firing line has the most impact on the bullet. The wind farthest from the firing line has the least. 50 foot would be very high for a flag.

My point of aim at 1,000 yards is about 125 feet above the target. Of coarse the bullet does not go that high

When the wind blows and is changing, it weeds the shooters from the non shooters. When the wind is calm, it can simply be a trigger pulling contest.

snapper

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree, but the wind out at the backstop at 100 yds will tell you when to shoot. Even small caliber balls are going fast enough at the muzzle to not be pushed too far by light winds. The video noted above indicates that when you get a cross wind of 18 mph, or more, there is little point in trying to take the shot.

I have fired trap matches when winds came up that strong, and I can attest to the fact that the cross wind will blow the pattern down wind 3 or more feet in a strong wind of 20 mph or more. Even using 7 1/2 shot does not help much trying to hit a moving clay target about 35 yds from the muzzle. And, of course, the winds do "dippy-doos" with the clay targets, making it just as likely that you will miss them no matter what you do. :blah:

 

[fleener]

Not shooting in a 18 mph or greater cross wind?

I was in Dodge City KS last year practicing for the world matches. The first day we shot 1,000 yards almost all day, wind was 30 - 35 mph.

It was a great learning experience for me. The wind kicked my butt the second day. Tail wind that was switching did me in. I knew I needed to learn a lot more than I did. Bought the book and read it a couple of times. Made a big difference for me. I am relativly new to the long range stuff and the wind is/was the biggest thing I needed to learn.

Last year at the Spring Nationals I was shooting 500 yard mini creedmoor and doing a good job of reading the 15 - 20 mph cross wind. I went over to shoot the 50 yard to 200 yard round ball sil. At 200 yards I made a huge mistake with the 9 oclock cross wind. Aimed at the first bear and hit the second one knocking it over and scoring 2 misses. I was able to hold off and hit the last 2 animals.

At shorter ranges it is certainly less complicated.

Being able to read the wind can seperate the men for the boys.

shotgun shot and single projectiles out of rifled barrel are apples and oranges.

Wind flags near the line and up wind of where you are shooting are the the most valuable, all things being equal. Rairly do you have a perfect range free of hills, valleys, trees and other things that can make the wind do even more funky things.

I pick a dominate flag for reading and a couple less dominate flags. Again depending on the range, the flag is usually close to the line and up wind. You dont want to know what the wind was doing you want to know what the wind is going to do.

snapper

 

[J.D.]

Dang, ain't that the truth.

I was coaching our Bn rifle team at the 5th Army regionals...quite a few years ago.

Our firing point was under the lea of the up wind side berm. In watching the trace through the scope, the heat signature made a spiral due to the vortex created by a 20 + MPH wind coming over that berm.

I don't think the wind affected the bullets flight, but it sure did affect the trace.


God bless

 

[dkbowyer]

Thanks for the advice but using a flag is most definately not a "gimmick". The most serious long range shooters in the world always use flags as a wind gage OR their own contraption, BUT one way or the other, they will use something. It's plain stupid to wet your finger and stick it in the air and say, "Well the wind looks to be about 10mph." That's not serious shooting. That's plinking with the kids. I've seen many anemometers at the ranges. What I'm asking is if there is a set of weighted flags instead of the standard flag that is used by long range shooters. I'm only shooting 100 yards or so. I don't need a big fancy wind gage, just something small and easy to read so I can accurately use my range card that I've spent so much time and trouble working up.

Thanks for the advice. God bless!

 

[dkbowyer]

1000 yards! Good grief. My poor little .445 round ball would fall almost 183 feet according to my program. What do you mean by dominate flags? That seems to be what I'm refering to. I could tell close to what the wind is doing because of the weight of each flag. Say one will stand at 10mph but the next will only be fluttering and the one after that will be dead. I'm sure you know what I mean. Do they make flags like that or is it a one weight fits all and you just have to figure out how that one weight will move in any given wind?

Hey thanks a lot for the great responces from everyone. I found the book on Amazon and will get it asap.

 

[dkbowyer]

For my wee tiny .445 roundball at 1900 fps, my card is telling me that I would be off target over 15 inches at 100 yards with and 18mph crosswind. Stuff like this is why the roundball is so hard. Conicals aren't near the problem. Shoot, my 8x57 doesn't fly off diddly squat at only a 100 yards but the roundball seem to be affected greatly. At the matches, it seems to be that the 100 yard bulls usually decide the winner of the match. If you can score some extra points on them, you can make up a lot of lost ground. No one seems to hit them very well. At the last shoot I was at, the target winner was in the 20's. The big state shoots don't seem much better. Right now I'm happy to land 3 shots in the scoring zones. I understand that this sounds bizarre to long range guys with their big Rolling Blocks and Sharpes but shooting a pea with a BC of .069 is a whole different world of problems.

Thanks for the help!

 

[fleener]

I dont know if you can buy a set of weighted flags or not. I judge the strength of the wind based on what the flag is doing. Fluttering, half erect, full erect, snapping. If you have one flag, and know what that flag does and the wind speed that should work for you.

By dominate flag I mean one flag that I pay the most attention too. If I have 6 flags or more to watch, you simply cant keep track of everything. Pick one flag in a good location, and use that, and then watch the other flags, usually down range.

snapper

 

[paulab]

Fleener speaks the truth. The only way that you are going to get different weight wind flags is to make them yourself. I think that If you put an ordinary wind flag at 25 and one more at 60 yds. and spent some time on the range shooting/reading the wind, you would soon catch on. It's not rocket science but there is a learning curve. You MUST figure out the "dominant" wind condition/direction/velocity and shoot only then [if you aren't rushed for time.] The closer wind flag is more important than the one farther out since a puff of wind at the firing line will deflect a bullet off target more than a puff of wind at 60 or 80 yards. It's no surprise that competitors who can read the wind usually finish with better scores than the ones who can't. cheers Paul

 

[J.D.]

using a flag is most definately not a "gimmick".

I was talking about gimmicks like the weighted flags, you ask about.

Follow fleener's advise.

The most serious long range shooters in the world always use flags as a wind gage OR their own contraption, BUT one way or the other, they will use something. It's plain stupid to wet your finger and stick it in the air and say, "Well the wind looks to be about 10mph." That's not serious shooting. That's plinking with the kids.

Well, I'm glad to learn that my competitive career was nothing more than plinking with the kids, since we didn't use wind flags at any of the ranges we fired on, other than maybe looking at the range flag that announced that the range was open. :bow:

I guess a box full of medallions and trophies from the All Army Championships doesn't count for much.

Sorry I intruded on your space.

God bless

 

[dkbowyer]

I certainly meant no offense. I've never seen a serious shooter not have the ability to judge the air currents with more accuracy. Congrats on your victories and you most certainly don't intrude. I wish for your advice any time.

Thanks!!

 

[J.D.]

Not a problem.

I apologize to you for being so thin skinned. My day hasn't been all that great and I took it out on you.

IMHO, the best thing you can do is buy the book recommended above and get out and practice in all kinds and wind or weather. Keeping accurate score books is the best way of keeping track of past wind and weather conditions, for future reference.

To be honest, I have not encountered wind flags on any range I fired on, until I saw them set up at a NMLRA regional match.

God bless

 

[dkbowyer]

Really! You haven't seen any flags. Shoot, the Arkansas State Shoot at Berryville was bristling with flags the last time I was there. I've seen normal flags, pinwheels, air socks, guys puffing talcom powder and an honest to goodness aeronometer all in one shoot at Arkansas. Out of about 125-150 shooters there will be about 10-20 that are serious marksmen (and women). It's these that have the stuff on the range.

I saw a set of homemade pinwheels that were weighted and would turn into the wind and only the certain colors would spin in a specific speed wind. Say like the red would spin in a 10mph and the red and blue would spin in the 15mph wind. I'm thinking the windsocks were the same way but I'm not positive about that one. The bench gun guys will always have something out there. All I'm really needing is a way to gage the wind for the 100+ yard target. My wee 45 caliber roundballs don't buck the wind at all. An 18mph crosswind will blow my ball off 15 inches at 100 yards. That puts me off the paper completely.

Well, GOOD SHOOTIN! Maybe I'll run into you at a match one day. You shoot in Kansas mostly? I've done most my shooting in Missouri, Arkansas and Oklahoma.