sabot and powder stuck and won't fire

[tobias]

HELP! As most of you know I am a greenhorn newbie at bp shooting. So I hope you won't laugh too hard at me for this. But, I got out old betsy yesterday afternoon and ran a clean patch down the barrel of my .50 cal Hawken by CVA. I loaded with 50grns of pryodex ff and 230 grain sabot (I think its a 230) put on my percussion cap and snap. The snap popped but no bang. I put on another and another until I had fired over 50 caps. I am not exaggerating on this. So I finally gave up and decided to pull the sabot and powder. I have an extraction jig attached to my TC cleaning rod and when I pulled the rod after screwing the jig into the sabot, the rod seprated from the ferrel and now I have powder, plastic, sabot and a extraction jig stuck down my barrel.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get these things out safely? Once I get jig and company out we can discuss trouble shooting why my rifle won't fire. I stored the rifle away from people and inside a storage building until I can get the things out. I went to every store around that I know that sells bp supplies yesterday and no one carries the CO2 discharger thingys.

I need your help asap guys thanks in advance.

 

[roundball]

Some sort of place that has an air compressor would be my next choice...auto places, tire changing places, brake shops, etc, etc...might want to take the barrel off by itself so it won't look like you're getting out of your car with a rifle, etc.
Remember to help them keep the muzzle in a safe direction when they blast it out

 

[tobias]

I will give that a try thanks so much for responding so rapidly.

 

[hobbles]

Mornin tOBias
Did you pull the nipple and put powder behind it, then replace the nipple and cap it and fire it, (put powder in, hit it with your hand and add more, You only need bout 3 grains behind the nipple, ((bout the size of an pincle eraser)

 

[roundball]

I will give that a try thanks so much for responding so rapidly.

I've come to find so many uses for a good powerful air compressor over the years that I'll never be without one...will postpone other purchases if I have to in order to always afford having one in the garage...have had one since 1977...first one lasted 22 years...just replaced it a couple years ago.

In fact the price of them has come down a lot in the past couple decades...you can pick up a good size 5HP/120psi 20 or 30gal tank model from Sears every now and then at an excellent price.

I use mine constantly with muzzleloaders...when I'm unloading them after a days hunt, or blowing water out of cracks & crevices after a hot water cleaning, etc

 

[tobias]

I hadn't tried that, had not even thought about it but I will give er a go and see what happens. Thanks for the idea.

 

[tobias]

Great ideas, I am headed out the door now to go to my brother's place which is easy walking distance away. He has large commercial air rig that he uses in sandblasting and painting his restoration projects. I will be back here in about 30 minutes or so and will post results.

If you should hear of a rocket launch from Georgia you will know it didn't go too well :rotf: Thanks again for your help and the speed at which you responded.
Tobias

 

[gmww]

How'd it go.

Here are a bunch of suggestions I've seen over the years. First is the one I've used.

Remove nipple and put some powder in and fire percussion cap on nipple after you replace it.

Co2 bullet remover (purchased at any good ml dealer)

compressed air as suggested

replace nipple with grease fitting and pump grease

I've only had to use the first one and it has worked all the time.

 

[patch knife]

I always fire at least 3 caps (I use cheap caps for this , so I don't waste my expensive RWS caps) before I load for the first time . I also use denatured alcohol to clean the bore (when needed) while I'm shooting . It works for me . :thumbsup:

 

[tobias]

Whew :hatsoff: I got the stuck sabot out but I had to go to the powder under the nipple route. That worked like a champ. I was so pumped after the clearing that I decided to fire off some rounds. Long story short I am about ready to wrap this thing around a tree and revert back to my .303 british for fun and excitement. Oops didn't splain myself too well. I can not get this rifle to fire without putting powder under the nipple first then putting the cap on and pulling the trigger. I got so rattled at this when I finally did get a shot off it hit the dirt about 15 yards in front of me.

I fired 5 Remington #11s before I loaded with sabot and powder yesterday. Once I blew the thing out today, I fired one more through.

I just don't understand what I am doing I guess :hmm: and am more than a little frustrated at the moment.

 

[hobbles]

Mornin again tOBias
Glad it worked for ya,, Ifin you done with black powder then your done,, But if not, Then may a say find someone that shots bp, I THINK you might just need a lil help with this or that,, :v

 

[tobias]

Ok I think I follow you right up to the point of the denatured alcohol. You use this between shots during your stay at the range : :hmm: ? If so how do you know when to use it ? I tried brand new .50 cal sabots today (thats all I have & have not been able to find any rounders in any of the so called bp stores near me)and could not even get one down the barrel. I pushed with all my might and was only able to get it down about 3 inches.

I am not questioning in any way other than to understand. I just started with this new adventure and know less than nothing about it. I have been going by hit and miss until I found this forum.

 

[tobias]

Well I am not one to just quit and walk away but I am frustrated. I love the feel of this rifle against my shoulder and I think if I could figure out why I am having troubles with it firing I will be on my way to a happy marriage :rotf:

Problem is where I live I don't know of anyone who shoots traditional bp. All that I know that shoot bp go with them umentionable kind. I have no gunsmiths around me anymore that I am aware of and you good people here have helped more than I can put in to words anyway. You are most definitely right however, I do need help :shake:

I really appreciate your patience with me and hopefully one day soon I can report on the one that did not get away from me and my Hawken.

 

[hobbles]

tOBias
These boys here sure got me through some problems, (mostly just stuff I didn't know) Just ask,, good luck, hang tough :hatsoff:

 

[tobias]

I will thanks again for your help.

 

[roundball]

Whew :hatsoff: I got the stuck sabot out but I had to go to the powder under the nipple route. That worked like a champ. I was so pumped after the clearing that I decided to fire off some rounds. Long story short I am about ready to wrap this thing around a tree and revert back to my .303 british for fun and excitement. Oops didn't splain myself too well. I can not get this rifle to fire without putting powder under the nipple first then putting the cap on and pulling the trigger. I got so rattled at this when I finally did get a shot off it hit the dirt about 15 yards in front of me.

I fired 5 Remington #11s before I loaded with sabot and powder yesterday. Once I blew the thing out today, I fired one more through.

I just don't understand what I am doing I guess :hmm: and am more than a little frustrated at the moment.

FIRE CHANNEL

Have you given this barrel a good soaking, pump flushing, and scrubbing with STEAMING HOT SOAPY WATER?
There may be a cake of left over crud in the breech / fire channel area...suggest you do this to eliminate it as a possibility of blocking nipple fire to the main charge;

POWDER CONFIGURATION
Are you using loose powder or powder pellets?
(I assume loose powder since you trickled some under the nipple).
Pellts rarely work well in side locks;
After you pour in a charge of loose powder, lift up the rifle by the barrel and bump-bump-bump the lock area to ensure that powder gets settled down into the breech, and some kernels get over into the fire channel for the nipple/cap to ignite easier;

POWDER TYPE
BP substitute or real black powder?
If a sub, and you canb find a can of Goex, use that instead...much faster/100% reliable ignition than the subs.


Sure don't understand why the air compressor didn't blow out the load...
NOTE:
I assume you removed the nipple...you can't get enough air through the nipple hole to do it;

Also, a tapered rubber nozzle works best as it can be pressed into the nipple seat and held there to seal it so all air is directed into the bore.

 

[tx50cal]

I think that Roundball has hit the nail on the head. I have had this problem myself. Also make sure that the inside of your nipple is not "caked" with corrosion or carbon. This will limit the blast from the cap. I also recommend that after you get everything checked over and cleaned up, that you send a clean dry patch down the bore on a jag. Push the patch/jag combo up tight against the breech plug. Now pop a cap and then pull out the patch and examine. The patch should have some burns on it. This will tell you if the fire channel is open for buisiness . Hope this helps.
Robert

 

[dwarvenchef]

When I first started I had a problem with fluid build up around the chamber area from cleaning. When I loaded my first load it would get wet and make an awful mess. Now I make sure the Bbl is dry before I load, no more problems. I also used a straitened out paperclip as a nipple pick between shots.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Sorry to hear of your frustration, it can be tough when you have no one knowledgeable to turn to.
Pyrodex RS is about the hardest of all powders to ignite. If you can't get real GOEX black you may want to try one of the finer grained substitutes. At least try Pyro P.The pyro RS has very large granules which will not flow into the flash channel to reach the nipple. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that most mass produced rifles have a very tiny flash channel and just a bit of fouling will pretty much block it.
Do heed Roundball's advice on cleaning. Pull the barrel out, remove the nipple, stick the breech into a bucket of hot soapy water and with a patch on your cleaning jab pump the water in and out.
If there is a cleanout screw under the nipple, remove it and run a pipe cleaner through the channel. That screw hole is the flash channel and I have often improved ignition by drilling it out to take a 10x32 screw. :grin:

 

[dwarvenchef]

Don't know how many times I have wanted to drill out my TC's channel. the microscopic screw in it has seized long ago.