Sad but true....

[smokeblower]

Flint and sidelocks are almost non-existant in the big chain stores. I was up north for a family visit and enjoy shopping Cabelas in Dundee MI. I have purchased several muzzleloaders from them and been happy with quality and service. This past trip no flint or sidelocks were on the display wall. They had one used Pedersoli Bess and a .36 Blue Ridge , both with rust and dings for new prices. They were out of Goex in 2 and 3 ffg. Yet, they had a wall full of plastic stocked inlines :barf: . Is this a sign of the coming "next generation " muzzleloading" hunters? If the old rule of ... out of sight, out of mind .... holds true, we are a dying breed.

 

[pichou]

You found a store that had used sidelock ML's, and (sometimes) stocks real BP???????? :shocked2:

All we have around here is blister-packed inlines, pellet fuel, and party assortments of sabots in seasonal colors. I can get .440 and .490 RB. I think they are made in China. That's the only country that has lead still. They are buying up the world supply.

These big box stores carry bullet and ball molds and lead pots, but the clerks don't even know that they don't carry lead for casting.

The future is here, and we are in trouble! :cursing:

 

[F.G. Ford]

All of us "Old Farts" and our past-time will be a forgotten memory in ten tears.
Our half stocks, and longrifles will be curios for sale in some pawnshop for 5 -10 dollars or best offer.
Enjoy it while you can!
Ben there done that!
Old Ford

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I fear you may be right Old Ford, the range I go to I've only seen 2 other front-stuffers and both were in-lines. one fella said that he was 'going to get one of those' when I had my BP revolvers shooting.

 

[streetsniper]

It's up to us to keep the faith. I remember when Harleys were almost forgotten with the wave of rice-rockets coming in. Now every lawyer and doctor has one parked in front of a Sterbucks on Sunday afternoon. This sport is only for the faithful. BTW I still have that old 71 shovelhead that's been in the family for almost 20 yrs. I never gave up the faith. Billy

 

[MikeC]

Inline Rifles will always be most popular and the big stores like Cabelas and even the little neighborhood stores need to make sales/profits and floor space is expensive so they stock what sells. There are the speciality exceptions though like Dixon's. I believe if it's in a person they will eventually find their way to the traditional side, maybe not for hunting but for the pure pleasure and history. I know many bowhunters that hunt with a compound but shoot traditional for the fun of it.

Out of stock tells me they do stock BP so that is a good thing.

 

[Claude Mathis]

They were out of Goex in 2 and 3 ffg. Yet, they had a wall full of plastic stocked inlines :barf: . Is this a sign of the coming "next generation " muzzleloading" hunters.

I have to think that the only reason people buy in-lines is because of the extra hunting season. If there were no "muzzleloading season", there would be no reason to purchase an inline. They aren't being purchased for what they are, as much as when they can be used.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm close friends with sporting good store owners in half a dozen states. They all report the same thing: They quit carrying traditional muzzleloaders and supplies (except sub powder and caps) because the web has killed their sales. They can't get most of the stuff any cheaper wholesale than we can at retail on the web, so loss of customers closed out their lines. There is just no margin or markup available for paying wages, utilities and rent, much less recording a profit. Their words, not mine.

They also moan about the lack of qualified clerks willing to work for marginal wages. Learning and staying on top of everything you need to know to sell traditional muzzleloading supplies is tough when employees don't stick around.

That's another big reason they've gone to inlines. Use is not only easy for shooters, it's easy for unskilled employees to sell.

I've got a deal with my local store. I give him a 10% bump over what it costs me to buy and ship from the web. If he can get me the product for 10% over my own cost, I'll buy from him. I order enough he's taking an interest and even considering starting to stock a bit.

But every time I tell my friends about it, they whine about how much cheaper than they can get the same stuff on the web. Then complain because the store won't stock it so they can look at it before ordering. Sheesh!!!

Yeah, we save money ordering on the web, but when we won't work with local sources, we're messing in our own nest.

 

[pichou]

I agree those plastic things are easy. If you compare a inline, 3 pellets, a sabot and jacketed bullet and primer to...

Patch thickness, patch lube, powder measure, powder grade, ball size, short starter, flint size and placement or cap size and all that...

and the price of a inline...

of course they are easier and more popular. But they also make a ML season pointless.

It's really up to us to advocate the fun and the traditions associated with side lock ML's. And be sure to answer any and all questions, offer kids a chance to shot your longrifle at the range, etc. etc.

Me and my dad got started that way. A guy offered to let me shoot his longrifle. After that we were hooked. I started hunting at 13, and it was with my dad, and with muzzleloaders. Traditional muzzleloaders. In fact, that's all we hunt with.
:v


Am I preachin' to the choir?
:yakyak: :yakyak: :yakyak:

 

[jdixon]

Inline Rifles will always be most popular and the big stores like Cabelas and even the little neighborhood stores need to make sales/profits and floor space is expensive so they stock what sells. There are the speciality exceptions though like Dixon's. I believe if it's in a person they will eventually find their way to the traditional side, maybe not for hunting but for the pure pleasure and history. I know many bowhunters that hunt with a compound but shoot traditional for the fun of it.

Out of stock tells me they do stock BP so that is a good thing.

I have agree here. There is always a market for quality and tradition, the two main differences of the hand built custom sidelock over the mass-produced in-line. The market may expand and contract at times, but the demand for such items will not evaporate. As I understand it, prior to the late 1950's the black poweder shooters who were around shot original guns or made their own entirely from scratch! Those guys must have really felt alone in the sport. Look at the range of choices and vendors we have today in quality traditional sidelock parts - I don't believe that traditional shooters and sidelock hunters will become the norm, but I also do not believe that their numbers will vanish from these sports. My 2 cents - cheers!

 

[Mountainman56]

They were out of Goex in 2 and 3 ffg. Yet, they had a wall full of plastic stocked inlines :barf: . Is this a sign of the coming "next generation " muzzleloading" hunters.

I have to think that the only reason people buy in-lines is because of the extra hunting season. If there were no "muzzleloading season", there would be no reason to purchase an inline. They aren't being purchased for what they are, as much as when they can be used.

I believe you have hit the nail on the head Claude. These folks are not interested in a challenge........just a longer hunting season.

 

[Little Wattsy]

They were out of Goex in 2 and 3 ffg. Yet, they had a wall full of plastic stocked inlines :barf: . Is this a sign of the coming "next generation " muzzleloading" hunters.

I have to think that the only reason people buy in-lines is because of the extra hunting season. If there were no "muzzleloading season", there would be no reason to purchase an inline. They aren't being purchased for what they are, as much as when they can be used.

Exactly.....

 

[jbwilliams3]

Hey, I had a Gander Mt. close by that had flintlocks in stock”¦. Plastic-stocked flinters- one black, one camouflaged. Uggh. It’s like a smart car with a mercades-benz emblem on the hood to me.

At least they had goex and lead stocked- getting the powder was like applying to be a cia agent, though. I almost thought they were going to do a background check! It took forever and when the fella brought it out he held it out like it was going to spontaneously explode (he was dead serious.)

 

[Little Wattsy]

It's up to us to keep the faith. I remember when Harleys were almost forgotten with the wave of rice-rockets coming in. Now every lawyer and doctor has one parked in front of a Sterbucks on Sunday afternoon. This sport is only for the faithful. BTW I still have that old 71 shovelhead that's been in the family for almost 20 yrs. I never gave up the faith. Billy

I believe that this is VERY well put; For you's older then me...When was BP "reborn" the early 70's? Was there a ML season in the 50's or 60's and yet when consumers rasied their hands BINGO! Sidelocks were re-made. As long as people will but them at least SOME sideloks will be available. And IF the faith fades, as all fad's seem to do, just remember that the pendulem NEVER quits swinging and some day it will swing back over to sidelocks and PRB's.
In MY lifetime I have seen the swing from "somple cartridges" like the .270 and '06 to "Magnum" cratridges like the 7MM and 300 THEN an intensive period of Bow hunting and the revolution of said equipment then on to the "Short Mags" in all caliburs and here I find MYSELF swinging back to "simple" looking forword to a sidelock deer with or prehaps with out PRB's

 

[streetsniper]

I can't find BP anywhere in my state. So I smuggled it in from the Commonwealth of Virginia. They had all the BP I wanted plus rb's. They even had a couple of traditions kits. The sales guy knew where everything was and didn't even ask for ID. Less than 50 miles from Colonial Williamsburg. Coincidence? Billy

 

[Otter]

I'm close friends with sporting good store owners in half a dozen states. They all report the same thing: They quit carrying traditional muzzleloaders and supplies (except sub powder and caps) because the web has killed their sales. They can't get most of the stuff any cheaper wholesale than we can at retail on the web, so loss of customers closed out their lines. There is just no margin or markup available for paying wages, utilities and rent, much less recording a profit. Their words, not mine.

I suspect that could well be. But it could also be that everyone started buying their supplies, ML's and accoutrements on the web because nobody stocked their store with what folks wanted. If all the stores stocked .490 RB's and the shooters wanted/needed .440, .495 or .530 roundballs, they wouldn't sell much either, but they could say "everybody's buying their stuff on the internet!" Me, I make all my own RB's and whatever accoutrements I can.

 

[Ridge]

There is one shop here that sells traditional muzzleloaders. The owner is a very good builder. Unfortunately, he no longer sells black powder.

 

[renovato]

But every time I tell my friends about it, they whine about how much cheaper than they can get the same stuff on the web. Then complain because the store won't stock it so they can look at it before ordering. Sheesh!!!

Yeah, we save money ordering on the web, but when we won't work with local sources, we're messing in our own nest.

I couldn't agree more. I do gun shows for a living and I'm constantly hearing complaints about how show prices are too high and how they can get the same stuff cheaper online.

Occasionally I get the chance to remind them that the reason there is so much variety at the shows is because out of town vendors bring it. If nobody supports them, they won't return and all their show will have is the same stuff they see every day at their local gun shops. Consider the higher prices a convenience factor to have it all under one roof, like they pay a little higher prices to shop the local convenience store.

One thing I've noticed about the traditional muzzleloading market, and I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing, is the fact that the custom gun builders tend to undercharge for their time and skills. Custom guns seem expensive, but I remember a conversation on this board about a year back when Steve Zihn itemized out the time to build a gun and I think it worked out to about $7 an hour or so. That's not even a liveable wage in many parts of the country and discourages new builders from coming into the market. Compare that price to what a gunsmith charges to custom build a modern gun. I know I'd give anything to become a fulltime builder. I'm a part time gunsmith now. But I know I can't live on $7 an hour so I'm not even going to consider it.

On the positive side, it does make the guns more affordable. That might help bring more folks into the traditional side of things. This is why I said I didn't know if it was a good thing or not. I see good and bad from both sides of it.

I just wish there was some way to stimulate more interest in traditional guns. The sport is growing compared to 20-30 years ago, so I guess we're doing alright. I think if we had enough traditional shooters, we could swing the hunting regs away from the inlines though. Seems like everyone I talk to instantly thinks inline when they think of muzzleloading. I can't even get them to consider a traditional gun. I guess that speaks volumes for our "newer is better" mindset.

 

Plink,

Have you ever done the show we have at the coliseum pavilion here in San Angelo, Texas?

Jay

 

[4444]

I hate to admit it but six years ago I bought my first plastic inline kit with an instructional video, now I'm shooting GPR's with patched round balls. Right now I'm working on a flintlock. So I can't bad mouth the plastic inlines because it got me to where I am now. The first time the white smoke belched from the barrel I was hooked. The last time I went to the shooting range, the older gent behind the counter asked me what I'd be shooting. When I said muzzleloader he asked if it was one of those plasic pellet shooters or a real muzzleloader. When I said PB GPR BP, he smiled and said those are good shooters.