Saddle stich

[tenngun]

I'm trying my hand at jack ware. The how to I've seen and every one I find in photos uses a saddle stitch. The instructions for such as I've seen show two needles going through each hole from opposition sides. Most stuff I've sewed was whip or back stitched. After several inches I took to doing a running stitch pulled tight for three or four holes. Then repeating with the other needle . Seems just as tight and looks the same. Anyone know if there is a disadvantage to doing it this way. Is it less strong then doing each stitch one at a time?am I being a little retentive here?

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Saddle stitching is easy to do and extremely durable. Not sure the method you describe has any advantages over it but might work well enough.

The big advantage that saddle stitching has is that they are really snug and firm because you pull the stitching directly away from each other (in opposite directions) at 90° to the face of the leather to tighten them. You can't really do that with a running stitch on leather, especially on heavier leather.

A few tricks to using saddle stitches and making them look good:

1. Cut a groove in the leather to sink the stitches below the surface of the rest of the leather. A tool that makes this easy and consistent is called an adjustable stitching groover. That way the stitches don't wear out prematurely from abrasion.

2. Drill the holes you are going to put the saddle stitch through or use an awl to make the holes.

3. If you want evenly spaced holes, use one of the overstitcher tools to mark the spacing in the leather before you drill or awl out the holes.

4. Use saddle-stitch needles. They have a rounded rather than a sharp point so you can't damage the lacing as you put the needles through the hole in opposite directions. Also you don't need thimbles to protect your fingers because the saddle-stitch needles aren't sharp.

5. Use waxed linen thread instead of that nylon imitation sinew. It works better, looks better, and is historically correct back through the 1700's.

6. Be sure to stitch back over the original saddle stitches about an inch after you reach the end to finish off the stitching. No need to tie any knots, just cut the thread off as close as you can.

You can get the leather tools and supplies at TandyLeather.com, leatherunltd.com, and certainly other leather suppliers too.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[tenngun]

Thanks, I am using waxed linen. Was using glovers neddels will have to try the more rounded.... Is it like s tapasty needle?

 

[LRB]

Ask for harness needles. They come in at least two sizes. The back stitch needs only two to three stitches back to lock it up.

 

[fleener]

Twisted nailed it with his description. Certainly was a very well done.

Fleener

 

[BrownBear]

Anyone know if there is a disadvantage to doing it this way. Is it less strong then doing each stitch one at a time?

The biggest difference will come with wear over a period of time. The way you're playing with, if something breaks a thread here or there, the rest will unravel pretty quick in my experience. That's probably the biggest strength of saddle stitching- it just about won't unravel with a thread break.

Either way you sew it, you can further guard against breaking if you'll use an awl rather than a round leather punch or drill. With the awl (whether round or diamond) you're not removing any leather and it will squeeze back down around the thread and grab it tight. That really helps the longevity of your work.

Try it for yourself. Punch or drill a set of holes and pierce a set of hole with an awl. Let both sit overnight. Now try to sew them. It's sure easy to get the two needles through the drilled or punched holes. But the awled holes will be a PITA to sew because they've closed back up so much. Good enough for me.

 

[tenngun]

Yeah learned that years ago. Bought a leather punch from Tandy. Sewed real easy, just wouldn't hold. Got my first awl about 1980
Thanks for the idea about the harnes needles.

 

[BrownBear]

...harnes needles.

I sure like to use the smallest size I can get away with. They let you use a fairly small awl, which makes for a more secure seam in my opinion (Yeah, they're like anal sphincters- everyone has one!). The small needles just go through any awl hole easier, too. This page has the array of sizes.

I use the smallest (Size 4) with fine threads as a matter of course. But once upon a time I arrived with those little #4's and some larger thread. Kind of a wrastle getting the thread started on the needles, but the sewing was lots easier nonetheless. Just more room to play.

Speaking of starting the thread, if you aren't using the fray or shaving technique to join needle and thread, Al Stohlman does a good job of illustrating it in this book. Pretty dandy discussion of the advantages of saddle stitching and directions for saddle stitching too, along with other stitches you can use for seams not typical for shooting pouches.

 

[LaBonte]

A couple of things to note:
1) tenngun's description of his sewing if using the same thread with a needle on both ends like doing a saddle stitch and if you start the same way with the pulling the thread to the middle and then sew one length first then the other it will give you the same effect as a saddle stitch - it usually doesn't come out as neat as a standard saddle stitch but is just as strong (the zipper effect of something other than a saddle stitch like a machine stitch is something of a fallacy and that's based on 50+ years of doing repairs and picking literally miles of old thread).

2) Awl vs Drill - many traditioninalists will tell you that an awl hole is "stronger/safer) than a drilled one, but based on actual test the drilled holes were less likely to tear out. Dusty Johnson did a series of tests some years ago that was wrote up in the saddler's journal that proved drilled is stronger.
On the other hand if you're doing period correct work than a drilled hole is a non no.

tenngun - if interested in Jackware and sewing leather get a copy of the "Art of Handsewing Leather" - there is a section on making a dice cup that shows you how to do the flat side seam using a butt stitch as well as the best way to sew on the ends.
Here's a pic of a butt stitch aka tunnel stitch - you use a curved awl and needles.

And here's the link to a tutorial I did a few years back on a slight alternative to the standard saddle stitch..
Saddle Stitch

PS I get much of my sewing supplies from
Campbell-Randall including unwaxed linen thread (Barbour's) as well as the proper needles which should match the size of the thread. http://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=43_60_62

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I'll bow to Wick's experience on the back stitches. I always put more just to make sure, but I haven't done anywhere close to as many as Wick has.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hey tenngun,

The Glover's needles have a 3-sided sharpened point that is great for punching non-tearing holes through lightweight leather (like you would with moccasins) but are not good for saddle stitching because they tend to cut the thread that you just put through from the other side. You need a blunt pointed needle to do that well.

I just checked my needles and I have both the harness needles in a couple of sizes and the Tandy Stitching Needles in my kit. The stitching needles are basically the same as the harness needles but have a MUCH larger eye (easier to thread) and only come in one size. That larger eye makes the needle easier to bend out of shape if you screw up, so....don't screw up! :grin:

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[LRB]

I do three back stitches, but am told two will hold. From tugging on a two hole backstitch, I believe it would, but one more is not that much more to do. I confess to drilling my holes any time it is possible. I cut a groove, but not so deep that the thread is completely below level, maybe after the item is sewn, molded and finished it might be, then use a stitch marker, drill with a 5/64"bit and sew with 5 ply linen that I have pre-waxed. I can't really see much, if any difference in a drilled hole or a diamond awl hole once the item is completely finished. Chuck I am sure can, but he would be looking for it. As long as the stitching appeared neat, I would not be looking that close.

 

[crockett]

I do 2 1/2, so that the cut off ends are both on the back side.
As I understand your question, maybe to speed things up, you are taking one needle and running through about 4 holes and then the other needle, from the opposite direction, through the same four holes. My only thoughts are that sometimes you might piece the thread in the hole with the second needle. If you do just one hole at a time, I don't think it is a big deal but if you did four holes and then started with the other end- I'm not sure whether- if the second needle pieced the thread- there would be an issue. By "piercing" I don't mean it cuts or breaks the existing thread but that the second needle worms its way through the twisted strands and when you pull tight you get some sort of a snag or loop- hope I explained it correctly.
In any event...What's the hurry? You are doing a labor of love, might as well do one stitch at a time and enjoy. Better than shoving snow or mowing the lawn.

 

[tenngun]

Got a pack of the harness needles and Seward it up. I work 12 hour shifts and don't do much on my working days other then sleep. Going on a trek when I get off so was hurring to make a larger canteen, just finished waxing it. It holds 10 cups just a circle design with ears on the top. Most every pre wtbs canteens I find are about 1 qt. I drink a lot on the trail, so I went with basic styling just made a bit bigger.
Tandy had 3-4oz veggie tan shoulders on sale, so I think there may be a flask in the future.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Tenngun, I don't know if you remember Fred Miller, part of our original ml club here. He was a professional upholsterer. He showed me that stich and just called it a 'double needle' technique. I never knew it was also called a saddle stitch.
BTW, when I can, I predrill my holes and stitch with a three-sided needle. I find the three sided needles don't tear the leather and I use large ones because they are easier to hold and handle.
Never claim my work is artistic. Most looks like old carrion. But, the items hold together and last, and last and.....

 

[Artificer]

Thanks to LaBonte for originally mentioning it, you may find Nigel Armitage's You Tube videos very helpful. Here is the one on "Saddle Stitch in Detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGuiha5S2oE

Gus

 

[tenngun]

neat thanks :thumbsup:

 

[plinker]

Let's assume you have made the holes with either an awl or a drill and are stitching toward yourself. Put the left needle most of the way through the hole. Now catch it with your right hand with the right hand needle underneath the left hand needle. Pull the left needle all of the way through. You are now holding both needles in your right hand. Use your left hand to pull the thread that is through the hole back towards yourself. This gives a clear passage for the right needle and you won't pierce the thread with the right needle. Put it into the hole in a slightly downward direction and grab it using your left hand. Pull both needles tight. The threads cross each other inside the hole. This is what you did when you made the running stitch from each side.

Now we will add to it just a bit. Do everything as before up to and including pushing the right needle into and partway through the leather. Take the thread that is on the left side of the leather, pull it toward you then down, under the needle, back and over the top of the needle. Keep the loop you just made next to the leather, grab the needle with your left had and pull the needles apart to tighten the stitch as you did before. If you watch carefully as you pull slowly you will see that you created an overhand knot which will be inside the leather. This gives a tight stitch which will hold better (because of the knot) if the thread gets broken.

 

[tenngun]

will have to try that on the flask I plan next. The rounded tip neddles worked well, And my canteen holds water. I soaked the leather in water and filled with sand to give it the bottle shape. As it dried the stitchs I had already pulled preety tight got tighter still, looking almost inbeded in the leather like when you work with sinew...the real stuff...

 

[necchi]

you will see that you created an overhand knot which will be inside the leather

Now that's brilliant! :thumbsup:
I'll have to remember that one and run a "knot" stitch like that, maybe not every stitch but at least every few,,