Screw Removal Help

[jlutz]

I was working on breaking down this new to me 1851 Pietta, and the backstrap screws betrayed me. They were already kind of buggered, and even though I used a gunsmith screwdriver, I buggered them even more and they remain firmly in place. I’m letting them soak in Kroil, but it’s questionable if there’s enough slot remaining to use.

Any tips on getting them out? I can drill them out and could try a screw extracting bit, but if anyone has any tips or other ideas, I’d love to hear them! Thanks!

Jake

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Get a large nail and file the point flat. Hold it in a vice grips and heat it up red hot and hold it on the screw head. It won't hurt anything and the heat will transfer to the threads which may help loosen them up.

 

[William Lincoln]

If the spot heat fails, then try heating the frame recoil skirt up to about 200 degrees. Put your full weight against a square tip slot head . If no luck you can try drill and drive
a small quality slot head into the hole and try that. Of course
the easy out method should be a last resort. But screws are
available. Those need replacing in any case.

 

[bubba.50]

Have you tried one of the hand-held, tap with a hammer impact drivers?

 

[jlutz]

Thank you for the suggestions! I’ll put some heat to it tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[jlutz]

Have you tried one of the hand-held, tap with a hammer impact drivers?

I haven’t yet, but I may give that a try if the heat doesn’t work. Thanks!

 

[Captndan]

I haven’t yet, but I may give that a try if the heat doesn’t work. Thanks!

Those hand held are great. I have a Snap on.

 

[Blitz]

Those hand held are great. I have a Snap on.

I was working on breaking down this new to me 1851 Pietta, and the backstrap screws betrayed me. They were already kind of buggered, and even though I used a gunsmith screwdriver, I buggered them even more and they remain firmly in place. I’m letting them soak in Kroil, but it’s questionable if there’s enough slot remaining to use.

Any tips on getting them out? I can drill them out and could try a screw extracting bit, but if anyone has any tips or other ideas, I’d love to hear them! Thanks!

Jake

Kroil is good stuff, but the absolute best liquid I have ever used is equal parts acetone and transmission fluid . the type ATF does not seem to be an issue, any seems to work equaly well .
I was extremely dubious about this formula , but after years of trying every latest and greatest to come down the pike I finally realized some of those old machineists just may have something.
And yes it does work !

Buzz

 

[user 34300]

Step away form the drill!

Un-buggar the screw heads with a flat punch before you try again. Heat the parts to about 400*F. That heat will not bother the springs. Flood it with penetrant as it cools. Then soak in penetrant for a couple of days. The liquid will be sucked into the crevices. If somebody used red Loctite you will have de activated it. Use a perfectly fitting screwdriver. Push is hard into the slot with a drill press or milling machine, give it no room to climb out under torque. Drive it with a wrench. Rock it back and forth until it budges. If it does not come out you will snap the head off, no drill needed. If you do what I suggest you are very likely to remove the screws without damaging anything.

 

[kje54]

I was working on breaking down this new to me 1851 Pietta, and the backstrap screws betrayed me. They were already kind of buggered, and even though I used a gunsmith screwdriver, I buggered them even more and they remain firmly in place. I’m letting them soak in Kroil, but it’s questionable if there’s enough slot remaining to use.

Any tips on getting them out? I can drill them out and could try a screw extracting bit, but if anyone has any tips or other ideas, I’d love to hear them! Thanks!

Jake

Try the rubber band trick. Place a wide rubber band (one side only) over the stripped screw head, push the screwdriver down and slowly try to unscrew the screw. You could also try tapping the screwdriver further down into the rubber band by tapping it with a hammer to get a better grip.

 

[Blitz]

Step away form the drill!

Un-buggar the screw heads with a flat punch before you try again. Heat the parts to about 400*F. That heat will not bother the springs. Flood it with penetrant as it cools. Then soak in penetrant for a couple of days. The liquid will be sucked into the crevices. If somebody used red Loctite you will have de activated it. Use a perfectly fitting screwdriver. Push is hard into the slot with a drill press or milling machine, give it no room to climb out under torque. Drive it with a wrench. Rock it back and forth until it budges. If it does not come out you will snap the head off, no drill needed. If you do what I suggest you are very likely to remove the screws without damaging anything.

Excellent advice and technique aligns with my experience removing badly rusted screws bolts excepting welding an another bolt with head when space is available. Heating cooling cycles are very usefull. AS an aside never leave a fuel /oil barrel that has been previously opened sit flat if any amount of precipation is expected, no mater how tight the stopper is turned in it will not keep water from entering unless a sealing agent is used. a barrel on a hot/warm day will heat and the expandid gas/ air in barrel will be forced out and at night during cooling cycle the air will be forced inside along with any water on the lid due to partial vacume in barrel.Always tip up one side with 4x4 or available prop.

 

[jlutz]

Thanks everyone for the many helpful suggestion. I tried some heat today to no avail. I don’t have an impact screwdriver to try that yet, so I may a go with the drill press method next. Got tired of putzing with it today so I switched back to the stock I’m refinishing. In that regard, what the finish of the old Italian reproductions lacked in appearance, they certainly made up for in durability!

 

[old ugly]

i have removed such type screws before.
by
using a drill bit (of good quality because those screws will be hard) the same size as the head of the screw, carefully drill the head off of the screw without damaging the brass frame.
once both screw heads are off the frame should come off and you can grab the stub of the screw with vise grips and unscrew it.
the hard part is starting the drill into the centre of the screw heads as it will want to catch the slot. i have found that if i start with a small drill bit it will catch and break so i start with as big of drill as the counter sunk hole will allow.
this is of course the last ditch course of action. try everything else first.
i have done this a few times with success
good luck to you
ou

 

[William Lincoln]

OLd Ugly has the next step, but I drill a center pilot hole
into the slot first. Then follow with a larger bit-hardened
steel of course. Best to chuck the frame into a carpenters
clamp after removing grips . Depending upon your shop
equipment, follow old ugly's advice being cautious to not
drill too deep. Track of the Wolf will have the replacements/
or Dixie Gun Works. Report your progress back. We have
all faced this type of "screwed up screws" difficulty.
Lesson is: use proper professional gunsmith screwdrivers.
You can also drill the pilot hole larger,drive in a "easy out"
and use your ratchet drive to remove it.

 

[Col. Batguano]

A 50-50 mix of Automatic Transmission Fluid and Acetone will give you a better (lower) breaking strength than most penetrating oils do. Let it soak in the stuff for a few days.

 

[jlutz]

i have removed such type screws before.
by
using a drill bit

Though I tried as others had suggested, I ended up needing to take Old Ugly’s approach and drill them out. I did so with a reasonable degree of success. A keen eye can see that the holes in the backstrap are no longer perfectly symmetrical as it seemed impossible to avoid a slight amount of wander from the bit, but not so much as I think it will affect the structural integrity.

I’m keeping the other suggestions as a future reference though. What I learned for the next time is to take some of those steps earlier in the process if the screw resist before hitting the point of no return.

Many thanks for all the input!

 

[stewart.leach]

This has been a good series of posts, worthwhile for all of us, and not just for gun work.

One of the most important things to apply when dealing with stuck screws is patience! Apply penetrants and then let sit for at least a few days. Try a few heat and cool cycles, and more penetrant.

 

[macr0w]

So you drilled the heads off and then pulled them out with plyers?

 

[jlutz]

So you drilled the heads off and then pulled them out with plyers?

Once I drilled through the heads of the screws, I was able to remove the back strap. Then I applied more penetrating oil and was able to grab the post of the screw that was still protruding from the frame and unscrew the remainder. Just couldn’t get a hold of it well enough initially due to the damage to the heads, and my other attempts to overcome that problem weren’t successful.

 

[old ugly]

the drill bit wandering is the hard part. that is why i start with a larger size drill bit, for me i find it is easier to keep it centred, even if it is to just start the hole.

another thought and which i saw a fellow do, is to use a die grinder with a small round bit, to remove the screw head. BUT ive never done it myself, for me i am not steady enough with those bits.

as long as you were successful is the main thing

to add. if i were going to take this apart often i would buy the correct screws, But i would also buy allen head screws. put the correct screws in your shooting box for the future, use the allen head screws to hold the frame on untill you want the gun to be correct again. no damaged screws that way.

ou