Seating the ball

[tenngun]

I did see a kid at the southwestern mud-de-vous in 2015 Leslie Arkansas. After seating the ball he threw the rod down the bore several times with considerable force. The rod bouncing out of the bore with every throw. He was late teens or early twenties and shot center with each shot.
Not something I ever did, but you can’t argue with success

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

Bouncing is silly. If your gun is working and loading smoothly, you should be able to seat the ball firmly by pushing on it with the ramrod or range rod. I use a palm saver and just push it down tightly. Done. If you know your gun, you will know when you got it right.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

As far as seating a prb is concerned, I choke up on the rod and seat the ball roughly 4" to 6" at a time. I learned to do it that way because I had never heard of a "short starter" until years later.

"..., having filled the charger even full from the powder horn, pour the charge carefully into the barrel; then place an oiled linen, or other cloth, patch over the muzzle being careful to center it over the bore. Next place a round ball, with the sprue up, in the center of the patch ..., and holding the ramrod short with both hands push hard and straight to start the bullet some six or eight inches down the bore, from which point the ball should be easily pushed down onto the powder. Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not ‘whang’ the ball with the ramrod onto the powder – simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod...., and ramming or pounding the ball down the bore will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere thus destroying all accuracy." (original author's emphasis)

NED ROBERTS The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle 1947

We should note that when the author speaks of "destroying all accuracy" that Ned Roberts was talking about accuracy at "40 rods", which is 220 yards, so that those that do whang the ball on top of the powder, may not see what damage is being done to the ball's accuracy at 50 or even 100 yards. It should also be noted that Mr. Roberts does not want any ball obturation during the loading process.


LD

 

[FishDFly]

His book should be required reading of all M/L shooters.

 

[shane a gress]

His book should be required reading of all M/L shooters.

I have a copy of it. I read it 20+ years ago. Maybe it's time to reread it to gain what I have lost.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Mark your rammer so when fully seated you know . . . it is. No smashing necessary.

Choke up 6 or 8" at a time and push smoothly. No seperate range rod or metal rod needed.

This is pretty simple stuff. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. No smashing necessary.

 

[Gowacky]

My body is getting more particular about what it will allow me to do before it starts complaining (arthritis). So, on my first day of getting to shoot a few times I was seating the bullet then using about a 6” stroke to pound on the ball a little. By that evening my wrists were so sore. I was a little shocked that small change had such a negative effect.

I’ve had a time of it just correcting the little flaws like the hammer wasn’t hitting the cap hard enough and now it’s in the shop getting my peep sights installed.

But, I’m making progress and expect to be fully ready to shoot as much as I’d like very soon. This time I’m going to be more gentle (while still firm) when loading. I intend to swab between shots and just push the bullet onto the powder.

 

[Greenjoytj]

I’ve never had a straight ramrod there is always a slight bend in it the would prevent throwing the rod down the bore.

I push the rod till the load mark I put on the masking tape I stuck to the rod aligns flush with the muzzle.

 

[Tb54]

The other day when my boy and I were target shooting our black powder rifles, (percussion)I noticed a delay occasionally, when he fired,between the detonation of the cap, and that of the powder charge. Only slight delay though, about like the delay of a flintlock flash pan, and it’s charge. Just enough to audibly notice. Would that indicate not seating the ball tight enough to the powder?

 

[Carbon 6]

Generally no.
Usual suspects are a dirty fouled gun,(nipple and flame channel especially.) forgetting to slap the gun during loading, large powder granule size, or using a BP substitute. All can cause delayed ignition.

 

[Tb54]

Slap the gun???

 

[Carbon 6]

Slap the gun???

More of a friendly pat really.
Guns with patent breeches, CVA side bolsters especially, benefit from being rotated towards the lock and given a gentle "slap" or two on the opposite side of the stock. (opposite of the lock). after the powder is poured down the barrel. This helps to ensure that powder makes it's way into the bolster, and settle the charge.

 

[Le Loup]

Bouncing the ramrod is fine if you only drop it, a wood ramrod will bounce fairly easily. A steel ramrod doing the same think could damage the ball, so I don't bounce my steel ramrod. However, original ramrods tend to be too short to get a good grip, NEVER push down on the end of the ramrod with the palm of your hand! Tow reasons for this; 1) if the ramrod breaks you can end up with the rest of the ramrod piercing your wrist, & 2) you can inadvertently create enough heat with pressure to ignite the charge.
Better to make yourself a longer ramrod; I have made new longer ramrods for my rifle, pistol & my fusil & the projecting ramrods do not affect the accuracy.

Keith.

 

[Tb54]

If 20,000psi on the back of the ball don’t deform it upon fireing, bouncing the rod shouldn’t either I would think. Unless the jag don’t fit the arc of the ball. Makes sense not to though too, now that I have experience to learn from, by asking questions. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Scipio]

Bouncing the ramrod is fine if you only drop it, a wood ramrod will bounce fairly easily. A steel ramrod doing the same think could damage the ball, so I don't bounce my steel ramrod. However, original ramrods tend to be too short to get a good grip, NEVER push down on the end of the ramrod with the palm of your hand! Tow reasons for this; 1) if the ramrod breaks you can end up with the rest of the ramrod piercing your wrist, & 2) you can inadvertently create enough heat with pressure to ignite the charge.
Better to make yourself a longer ramrod; I have made new longer ramrods for my rifle, pistol & my fusil & the projecting ramrods do not affect the accuracy.

Keith.

Keith:

How can someone produce enough friction by seating a ball to set off a charge of any type of black or smokeless powder?

Yes, I have seen guys light up lint by compressing the air by hand in a air tight container but muzzle loaders have vent holes or nipples that let the air out.

Not to start a problem here, just asking.

Scipio

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

More of a friendly pat really.
Guns with patent breeches, CVA side bolsters especially, benefit from being rotated towards the lock and given a gentle "slap" or two on the opposite side of the stock. (opposite of the lock). after the powder is poured down the barrel. This helps to ensure that powder makes it's way into the bolster, and settle the charge.

^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^ !
I too have observed better/faster ignition on patent breech side locks by wrapping the breech area to make sure powdah dribbles down into the firing chamber.

Not 2 weeks ago at the range too, as new guy was having trouble w/ whoosh-booms ... from a caplock no less!

 

[Tb54]

What’s a patent breach side lock?
Do CVA or TC do them?

 

[Bad Karma]

There was at one time a device for sale which, when used as a seating handle on the rod, had an internal spring which collapsed at 40# or so. I don’t recall the name of that device but it impressed upon me the importance of consistency in seating the ball. No tricks or gimmicks, just run it home and then cap and fire anything more complicated than that is too much strain on my brain...

 

[Bad Karma]

What’s a patent breach side lock?
Do CVA or TC do them?

Both have built them in the past. As far as I know all tc sidelocks used a patent breech.

 

[Jack Ryan]

i was told years ago when I started shooting my BP rifle ,( and didn’t know that I didn’t know), to seat the ball until the rod bounced back when thrown against it. Seemed reasonable, but I got to wondering if that deformed the ball enough that it affected accuracy. How do you guys do it?

I push mine in with the ball starter, then I push it down with the ram rod. If need be I have a half inch deep hole on the side of the ball starter to put on the end of the ram rod to PUSH it down solid and I always check "my mark" on the ram rod to ensure it is fully seated.

I NEVER bounce, jam, or throw the ramrod up and down on the ball. I'm not sure about it's affect on the accuracy other than I'm pretty sure it is NOT going to make it any better to have random marks and imperfections added to the surface of the ball.

I am pretty sure it annoys me enough I can hardly stand watching people do it unless I have a bet against them or something.