Seating the ball

[hawkeye2]

I expect those who are consistent in seating the ball are probably more consistent in all aspects of preping and loading as well as measuring.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A rifled musket was a smoothbore that had been rifled sometime after manufacture. A rifle-musket was a military arm built with a rifled barrel such as the Springfield models of 1861 & 1863. A rifle (US military) was an arm built with a heavy walled rifled barrel usually 33" in length, examples are the 1841 Mississippi, the 1855 rifle from Harpers Ferry and the 1863 Remington "Zouave". Is there anything else I can do to add to the confusion?

The rifling in a CW 'rifled musket' was part of the manufacturing process. It was not an afterthought. The CW 'rifled musket' is, in reality, a rifle. The 'musket' term was a carry over from earlier days of when smoothbores, like the Brown Bess, etc., were used in warfare. The term 'musket' has become sorta iconic with many long guns.

 

[hawkeye2]

The rifling in a CW 'rifled musket' was part of the manufacturing process. It was not an afterthought. The CW 'rifled musket' is, in reality, a rifle. The 'musket' term was a carry over from earlier days of when smoothbores, like the Brown Bess, etc., were used in warfare. The term 'musket' has become sorta iconic with many long guns.

Sorry Rifleman1776 I will have to respectfully disagree with you. Rifled musket refers to firearms like the models of 1840 and 1842 that were returned to the armoury or a contractor to be rifled after manufacture. Actually rifleing the 40 and the 42 wasn't really an afterthought as they were produced with a thicker barrel than the earlier smoothbores anticipating them being rifled later. As far as the term "musket" being iconic with long guns I agree and we see everything from fowlers to Kentuckies being called "muskets" by the public. I offer the following from Wikipedia and if you have issues accepting a Wikipedia article as truth I do understand but it was easy to locate. I follow it with a quote from CivilWar@Smithsonian re the 1861.

"A rifled musket is a type of firearm made in the mid-19th century. The term referred only to muskets that had been produced as a smoothbore weapon and later had their barrels rifled. The term 'rifle musket' refers to musket length firearms that were manufactured with rifled barrels. The two terms are frequently confused."

"1861 percussion rifle-musket


This Model 1861 was the standard rifle-musket (emphasis mine) used throughout the war."

This seems to be the accepted terminology among collectors and skirmishers per my experience. I do not know when these terms came into use however it was a long time ago. At this point I would usually insert a peace sign smiley but they aren't avaliable now so a simple smile will have to do.

 

[Ketchakah]

IMHO, We as historically "educated" interpreters must refrain from using terminology that the uneducated public has adopted as common. To do so perpetuates the inaccuracy and to persons who know better, makes us look foolish.
We should strive to whenever possible educate people to the differences. Which was the point of my inquiry so as to become better educated in something i do not have experience with.

 

[8 BORE]

This thread started in Nov. Dont you think this ball has been seated so many times that its just a flat piece of lead.
If you have a accurate load, and youre consistant in the way you seat the bullet, isnt that good enough ?

 

[cannonball1]

No, I don't think it is enough 8 Bore. Most of what I have read here is how you feel. I read a shooting test from the internet where the person did three different trials. One barely seating the ball with hardly any pressure, one with a certainly poundage, and one bouncing the wooden ramrod. He shot a lot of different shot series only to find out that he tightened his groups from 3" to 2" at 100 yards by bouncing the ramrod. Mind you this is when shooting a round ball. It was a long report and I wish I would have saved it. I did a search to try and find it again, but could not. It was an interesting report and some of you might find it with some research. I tried it with conical bullets, but it didn't work there.

 

[8 BORE]

Go to a shoot at study the bench shooters. If they are CONSISTANTLY in the 9 and 10 rings at 100 yards, watch they're loading procedure.

 

[FishDFly]

Seems the opera is over.

 

[Sun City]

When all else fails.....get a 12# hammer and give 'er hell!!

 

[8 BORE]

When all else fails.....get a 12# hammer and give 'er hell!!

Your comment is not allowed this thread has ended.
You are too late. The fat lady has sung.
Good bye

 

[Bad Karma]

Kadoubty is right. as for pressure seating ,I have watched a man using a guage operated by two lugs on the muzzle to hook a strain guage,showing exactly how many pounds pressure applied to the ball. He shot not much better than the rest of us.Bob

This from a thread posted back in 2007... referred to the Kadooty. And other methods of seating the ball.

 

[8 BORE]

I guess the fat lady caught another breath.

 

[Bad Karma]

I guess the fat lady caught another breath.

Those fellows back in 2007. Thought she sung her last stanza.

 

[reddhawk]

I'm looking down, inside my T/C .50 black powder muzzle loading rifle and there appears to be a protruding ring just above the bottom of the barrel. I can feel it with my cleaning rod, too.
Question: Is this ring to prevent pushing the round ball down further onto the charge? It would allow the charge to remain below this constriction where the ball is resting on.
Is this a charge pocket?
Thank you.

 

[Stumpkiller]

T/C uses a patent breech. Below is a link that discusses it hereabouts.

I think mostly so you had to buy their special cleaning jag.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/patent-breech-why.85487/

 

[Pigpopper]

More of a friendly pat really.
Guns with patent breeches, CVA side bolsters especially, benefit from being rotated towards the lock and given a gentle "slap" or two on the opposite side of the stock. (opposite of the lock). after the powder is poured down the barrel. This helps to ensure that powder makes it's way into the bolster, and settle the charge.

I never understood why to slap on the opposite side. Wouldn't that move the powder away from the bolster? Rapping a hammer handle down on a hard surface seats the hammer head further down on the handle. Rapping on the opposite side of the of the lock will move the powder charge away from the lock, thus the bolster, right?

 

[dlidster]

I never understood why to slap on the opposite side. Wouldn't that move the powder away from the bolster?

Interesting point. And if I were to "slap" or "whack" the side opposite the hammer just once this might occur. My own routine is to tilt the rifle hammer-side side down and "thump" the opposite side eight or ten times rapidly with the heel of my left hand to vibrate the powder into settling into the fire channel.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

If you follow what the local “expert” does at the club shooting his TC or other such “traditional” muzzleloader, you’re supposed to seat the ball with your short starter, then in one violent motion, gripping the top of the ramrod, smash the ball down the muzzle with one stroke like your life depended on it. Then, bounce the ramrod as hard as you can against the ball AT LEAST a dozen times.

Keep in mind doing both things, could land you in the hospital with a sharp of wood through your hand, and wreck your accuracy. But don’t tell them that, that’s how they’ve been doing it since the 70’s and they’ll be sure to tell you how little you know.

 

[8 BORE]

Yes what Smokey Plainsman said.
Wood rods can get you.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I never understood why to slap on the opposite side. Wouldn't that move the powder away from the bolster? Rapping a hammer handle down on a hard surface seats the hammer head further down on the handle. Rapping on the opposite side of the of the lock will move the powder charge away from the lock, thus the bolster, right?

Makes no difference which side you lightly tap (no need to hammer on it)
It just rattles some powder into the channel and makes ignition pretty much foolproof as long as you didn't foul it.
I give mine a couple of taps, no issues.