Seating the ball

[Tb54]

i was told years ago when I started shooting my BP rifle ,( and didn’t know that I didn’t know), to seat the ball untill the rod bounced back when thrown against it. Seemed reasonable, but I got to wondering if that deformed the ball enough that it affected accuracy. How do you guys do it?

 

[Juice Jaws]

I just seat the ball firmly with the ramrod. I have seen guys bounce the rod a half dozen times or more, to me that doesn't do a thing but its a habit some people get into. Also I don't think it hurts anything so if that's the way you do it no big deal.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Wat JJ said is spot on. Seat firmly but bounce not necessary. In fact, the jag could mess up the ball and destroy accuracy.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I’m in the don’t bounce camp as well. The myth is if the rod will bounce then the ball is seated, not true. Will it deform the ball, true. Affect on acccurcy is little at short range and greater at longer distances. With a half century of muzzle loading under my belt I’ve made most of the mistakes possible and would like to help anyone shoot better.

 

[Le Loup]

i was told years ago when I started shooting my BP rifle ,( and didn’t know that I didn’t know), to seat the ball untill the rod bounced back when thrown against it. Seemed reasonable, but I got to wondering if that deformed the ball enough that it affected accuracy. How do you guys do it?

Smoothbores load very easily, so usually no need to "bounce the ramrod". In rifles with a wooden ramrod the ramrod will bounce easily without much effort, just drop it, don't throw it. This does not damage the ball or effect accuracy Tb.
Keith.

 

[hanshi]

I seat the prb until I feel a slight "crunch" as it touches the powder. No need to bounce the rod.

 

[tenngun]

I was taught at the first club I went to to drop, not throw the ramrod down and it would bounce if seated. Can’t see any logic to that, however I still drop the rod a few times, old habits and all. You can feel when it crunches against the powder. I like to swab tween shots and the ball runs down easily. Or you can mark your rod.

 

[Tb54]

That was the other thing I’d heard, marking the rod, but that assumes the load always takes up the same volume ... which it should, but if for some reason it don’t, there would be a gap between powder, and ball.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not doing the fittings on your rammer any good, either. Smooth and steady.

 

[azmntman]

I was never taught that and never did it. I guess one could test by pushing the ball don about 2-3 off the charge and drop the rod and then seat it as usual and drop again the same height etc? I don't think ya could slam the rod hard enough myself to deform the ball and alter accuracy.

This is like the blowin down the barrel "way" A few do it and swear by it and others bad mouth and swear at them for doin it. Being lazy I dont blow or bounce, I just shoot, load, repeat. Oh, many times it;s shoot, pull dryball, reload and shoot again, to be honest. Did it last time out sighting in a rifle. Only once in 20 shots though so thats dang good fer me

 

[Grumpa]

I'm with Hanshi and Stumpy, I like to feel that slight crunch. ( I know that Paul Valandigham wrote to not crush the powder, that the spaces left between the granules would hasten the ignition of the charge, but I'm not crushing the powder, just "condensing" the volume a bit

And my rifles have steel ramrods. They will definitely mark the ball if you start bouncing them with any kind of enthusiasm. Just isn't any need to do that. I never thought it looked "cool" either, more "amateurish".

Richard/Grumpa

 

[Bearkiller]

I was also taught to bounce the ramrod. Over the years I just got out of the habit of doing it and adopted the soft crush method. I didn't notice any difference in accuracy between the two methods.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Certain Austrian, Swiss and Southern German military rifles had rods made such that they bottomed out on a fitting on the rod when the ball was just off the powder. Perhaps 1/10" IIRC. The Henri-Gustave Delvigne system and the successor tige of Louis-Ettienne de Thouvenin both touted that their system stopped the ball from lying on the powder when it was deliberately deformed into the rifling by being hit with the rod. Throwing the rod down onto the ball will crush some powder and deform the ball. I would except the musket paper cartridge as the paper/ball must receive two sharp taps (not throws) to form the paper powder case into a sabot wad behind the ball but then the paper will take up most of the force by crushing itself rather than the powder.

To be fair one can also look at it as that it does not matter so much what one does as it does that it be done consistently. Throwing the same rod down onto the same powder and ball in the same way may reduce the combustion efficiency but it does not matter as long as it always reduces it to the same degree. Perhaps what one loses in deformation of the ball is regained in obturation reducing windage?

Bouncing the rod gives more 'theatre' and 'theatre' is part of the attraction of black powder muzzle loading. A big boom, fire and smoke. I am satisfied that not bouncing is more accurate than bouncing but if bouncing the rod a couple of times is part of your fun when shooting then, by all means, enjoy yourself. Personally I don't throw or bounce the rod.

 

[hawkeye2]

If the ball is stuck anywhere in the bore the rammer will bounce so it really doesn't tell you anything. Keep the bore clean, firmly seat the ball, you should feel it, and then check the mark on your ramrod. You did mark the ramrod didn't you?

 

[Dr5x]

In my years of coaching I heard of the bouncing ram rod practice which seemed to me a dandy way of flattening the face of the former round ball till it had the aerodynamic of a box car.
I'm not sure how important that is but why do it.
The best practice I follow was to seat the ball firmly on the powder and just to be sure it is really there apply enough of my own wright on the rod to break through that ring of hard stuff that sometimes forms a bit above the ideal location.
It is good to learn when the rod is exactly all the way down by marking your ram rod so you'll know everything is properly seated.

Dr5x

i was told years ago when I started shooting my BP rifle ,( and didn’t know that I didn’t know), to seat the ball untill the rod bounced back when thrown against it. Seemed reasonable, but I got to wondering if that deformed the ball enough that it affected accuracy. How do you guys do it?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Many ram rod tips and most cleaning jags are concave to match the surface of the ball. If you are loading soft lead cast balls with the sprue up, then the sprue is shaped to the approximate surface of the spherical ball. Even so the hard driven ramrod isn't any more effective than a firm push to about 40 pounds of pressure. No real need to load with the butt of the gun on a bathroom scale. Just be consistent. A firm push will allow you to feel the ball settling on the powder. A marked ramrod is a better gauge for knowing the ball position than trying to bounce the ramrod.

 

[TFoley]

The Polisar's advice when loading a Whitworth with their excellent swaged hexagonal bullets is to press down on the load with a force of 40 pounds for consistency. To begin with I used a set of bathroom scales - and got a few laffs, too. The laffs disappeared when they checked out the 1 1/2" five shot groups @100m. Later, as I got used to the 'feel', I dispensed with the scales, and the laffs.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Many ram rod tips and most cleaning jags are concave

Beginners must pay attention here. "many" and "most" is not all. I have some jag tips, I believe, are designed for TC patent breeches. They come to a point. If used to seat, no doubt they will distort the ball. Can't remember last time I actually used one. But, thinking about it, I believe next time I go in the shop I'll be doing some grinding on that pointy tip.

 

[Dr5x]

I WOULD PRESS DOWN ON THE RAM ROD (STEEL) WITH ENOUGH FORCE THAT MY HEELS WOULD BEGIN TO LIFT OFF THE GROUND. THIS GUARANTEES THE BALL IS ALL THE WAY DOWN AND NOT HELD BACK BY THAT HARD RING THAT SOMETIME FORMS ABOUT A HALF OR QUARTER INCH ABOVE THE FULY SEATED POSITION.

DR5X

The Polisar's advice when loading a Whitworth with their excellent swaged hexagonal bullets is to press down on the load with a force of 40 pounds for consistency. To begin with I used a set of bathroom scales - and got a few laffs, too. The laffs disappeared when they checked out the 1 1/2" five shot groups @100m. Later, as I got used to the 'feel', I dispensed with the scales, and the laffs.

 

[hanshi]

When I got started into BP guns I had to teach and learn about it, myself; I had no teacher or mentor. As best I can tell, that saved me from acquiring a lot of bad habits. As far as seating a prb is concerned, I choke up on the rod and seat the ball roughly 4" to 6" at a time. I learned to do it that way because I had never heard of a "short starter" until years later. Old habits die hard.