Semi-custom rifle?

[pepperbelly]

The seller of the TC Hawken has been very very slow responding to my questions. I am growing uncomfortable with doing business with him. If answering emails is slow I can imagine what shipping would be like. For example I asked 2 days ago what caliber the rifle is. he still hasn't answered.

I read the responses to my question about the Traditions rifle, and they make sense.

Since I don't know yet if I will get into this sport whole hog I really can't justify a $2,000.00 custom muzzleloader.
I also don't want to go cheap and possibly lose interest in what could be a really fun hobby.
So, what are some examples of a semi-custom rifle?
I know I need to refine what I am interested in in order for ya'll to help so I'll do my best.
I think I will want the rifle to be:

Flintlock
Longrifle as opposed to a Hawken
I am not sure of the era it's to be from but I like the lines and looks of rifles similar to the Buck's County Longrifle on TOTW as opposed to a Jaeger style rifle.
I have no real understanding of the different locks. I do sort of understand what a swamped barrel is, but the rest gets a little complicated especially when the time period comes into play.

I am open to suggestions. I am beginning to think I ought to save up a little more and get a better rifle than the TC Hawkens or Lyman GPRs.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[ian45662]

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5d...catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAG-915 http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5...catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAG-999 http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5...catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAH-090 http://www.trackofthewolf.com http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(w...catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAH-150 check those out you can also go on gun broker and do a search on flintlock and that will turn up some semi custom guns. I think you are on the right track though with your way of thinking

 

[Bill58]

The club members here in Harrisburg Pa have had good luck with the Cabela's Flintlock rifles. They are made by pedersoli I think. They have 32 or 36 inch barrels and are close to the fell of a longrifle. The prices are either lower or the same as the TC's and Lyman.
BKC

 

[pepperbelly]

So a semi-custom will cost me from $1,000.00 to over $1,500.00?
It does look like the era I am interested in is the Golden Age.
I also forgott o mention that I think I want a rifle with a rifled barrel, not a smoothbore.
I was really hoping for around $700.00-$800.00.
BKC TOTW has a pedersoli Frontier rifle for $479.00. Pedersoli rifles aren't semi custom, but I wonder if they are better than TC and Lyman? Anyway, that is the style of rifle I think I want- full stock and the swept look to the buttstock.
Of course having never shot a rifle like that I have no idea if that butt style is good or bad, but it sure looks purdy.

Jim

 

[pepperbelly]

I have read several threads here about how different a custom rifle feels from something like a TC Hawken.
What exactly is it that makes the difference? Is it the reliability, the feel, or what?

Jim

 

[fyrfyter43]

For just a little more than what you had hoped to spend, you can get a semi-custom from a builder like TVM, but you would have to keep the options to a minimum.

In my opinion, the Lyman GPR and TC Hawken or Renegade are all better than Pedersoli. Of course that opinion is only based on my experiences with my GPR and a Pedersoli Queen Anne pistol that I bought a few months ago. The GPR was great out of the box (although I did do some light polishing to improve the lock). The Queen Anne, even after quite a bit of work, still is not very reliable. It's also a rock-crusher (I have to knap every 4-5 shots, and replace the flint after 30 or so.) Just to get it to go bang, I have to swab the bore after every shot and load with a pick in the vent. Even so, I still get a flash in the pan about once out of every 3 shots or so.

 

[hanshi]

I swear! I have no idea what a "semi custom" rifle is. If you order a rifle built to your lop, style, material, caliber, lock, barrel length/weight/profile; that, my friend, is a CUSTOM rifle. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If I send a 1911 off to a gunsmith for a little work (sights, grips, tightening, etc) it is called a CUSTOM handgun. What's different about a rifle when it's built from the ground up for you?

You can get a no frills (ultra high quality) Southern, Tennessee, Lancaster, etc. fully built for anywhere from under 1k to about 1k. It will increase in value through the years (especially in flint), serve you faithfully and be orders of magnitude above any factory gun in quality. it will also be a custom. If you build or have it built from a kit it is also custom. TVM, TOW, Chambers and many builders can do this.

 

[jimmytheshank]

Well, I aint never owned a TC, but Ive held them.
My first BP rifle was a Traditions Pennsylvania flinter. Not bad to start, but compared to what I have now, it's an expensive club. The main difference is quality. With a semi-custom,( or custom) most of your parts are high quality, or pretty good enough at least, compared to standardized factory parts. You also get to choose grade and type of wood, and they can be custom made as big or as short as you want. There are other things of course. The best way for you to be able to understand would be to hold a custom gun in your hands, and then hold a store bought gun. The custom guns are just SO much more worth the money to be honest. Theyre lighter, better built, and just downright beautiful compared to a standardized rifle from Traditions or CVA. Although I wont knock them. A lot of us started out with those including myself. But I wont go back to them after owning a custom gun now. You can keep costs down somewhat, by buying parts a little at a time and then finding a good builder to build it for you. It makes it a little easier on your wallet somewhat. This rifle is my first custom gun built by fellow member Oldarmy. And believe me, it's worth every penny and then some IMHO. I hope you get something you'll have a lot of fun with whatever you decide. :thumbsup:

 

[hanshi]

Your point is well made! And yes, worth every penny and then some.

 

[ian45662]

Man thats a nice gun I love the color. The long rifle is such a beautiful thing

 

[cowpoke1955]

Here are a couple of places to check: http://www.avsia.com/tvm/ , http://www.earlyrusticarms.com/main.htm , http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/SittingFox.html and http://www.tennesseevalleymanufacturing.com/index.php . Should be able to find something you like in your price range. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

I have read several threads here about how different a custom rifle feels from something like a TC Hawken.
What exactly is it that makes the difference? Is it the reliability, the feel, or what?
Jim

Here's one reference...I just recently began shooting a .58cal early Virginia after shooting various T/C Hawkens in various calibers, with T/C and GM barrels, for about 18 years...8 years of caplocks, 10 years Flintlocks.

When I got the Virginia I was mostly taken with the looks of it...ie: a full stock vs. a half stock, and being a beautiful piece of super premium ++ curly maple compared to walnut. But after 3 trips to the range running 100 balls through it...I have to be honest and make the following observations:

It's 38" barrel isn't all that much different from the 32"/33" T/C and GM barrels I've shot all those years...and I realized that when I'm settling in for the shot, looking down a barrel at a front sight, I wasn't conscious of any difference from looking down a T/C or GM barrel.

The deluxe siler lock functioned fine as expected but strap yourselves in guys...without taking anything away from the chambers lock of course...it did no better than the new style redesigned T/C locks I've used for the past 10 years...fast ignition is fast ignition...there was no difference in ignition speed, reliability, flint life and so on...when squeezing off a shot concentrating on the front sight the sear trips, the hammer falls and ignition occurs as expected.

There is one noticeable functional difference...the front trigger of the Davis double set triggers is a significant improvement over T/C's front triggers...but again to be honest I always used the set trigger anyway...maybe I'll experiment with using just the front trigger for hunting this year since its so much better.

So, am I glad I got the early Virginia longrifle?
Absolutely...because it's a beautiful rifle, and it gives me another first hand experience in the world of Flintlocks. But will it put a ball through a deer's heart any better than all the T/C Hawkens I used for all those years...not at all.

I don't have any burning interest in an HC Flintlock for the sake of HC...I had simply reached a point where I decided I wanted to try a 'longrifle' for the experience of it and in a lot of respects that may be the main draw for a lot of people...I'm glad I did it, and am already planning a matching twin smoothbore...and it's letting me sell off / get a lot of Hawkens out of the house that I no longer use too :wink:

 

[tg]

I think the term has come to mean the difference between TVM/ERA and the others who have a production type setup, using precarved stocks and helpers making rather generic guns as a rule opposed to the individual builders who mostly start from a piece of wood

 

[texcl]

If I were you I'd look at the TVM tennessee rifle with a long hammock barrel, it's close to your price range and is a very good rifle, I'd also have them put a late ketland lock on it vs. the siler, if you decide you don't like bp guns you should be able to get your money back out of it or close to it.

 

[jimmytheshank]

Thanks guys, I am really proud of it. The thing is Pepperbelly, a production gun will do exactly what it's supposed to do the same as a custom gun. It will shoot a PRB through the barrel and (hopefully) hit whatever your aiming at. The reason many of us say get yourself a custom is because it opens up MANY opportunities to make it something unique. Something you'll be happy with. You can be just as happy with a production gun. They are fine weapons. But give you another example. Pedersoli sells the Frontier rifle. It looks like a Lehigh gun, which are my personal favorite. But the stock is walnut and the trim is very plain. Functional? Yes. Pretty? Yes. Unique? No. But thats OK. However if you want something nicer, Pedersoli sells the Deluxe Frontier rifle with a fancy curly maple stock and brass patchbox. Functional? Yes. Pretty? Yup. Expensive? HECK YEAH! Just for the upgrade of wood and simple patchbox, your almost paying the same as for a custom gun. However, if your really wanting a production gun, there's good ones out there. But if you want something more, save your money, look at whats out there and enjoy the fruits of your efforts. You'll be surprised at what can be made for you nowadays, and it might not cost as much as you think. And sometimes, well, it's just worth the cost whatever it is.

:grin:

 

[pepperbelly]

RB, I only found a single rifle you are selling in the for sale forum.
What other hawkens are you selling? IM or email me if you still have some for sale.
The other guy still hasn't responded and I am about to blow him off. His price is good, but...

Jim

 

[roundball]

RB, I only found a single rifle you are selling in the for sale forum.
What other hawkens are you selling? IM or email me if you still have some for sale.
The other guy still hasn't responded and I am about to blow him off. His price is good, but...
Ji :bull: m

I posted four of them Sunday, three have sold and I took down the sold ADs last night...

 

[Bill58]

Go to Cabela's web site and type in Kentucky, then if you buy one go to the NMLRA website and buy it there. The only down side is that it has a 1 in 48 inch twist barrel. All the ones I have been around have been good, and we have given 2 or 3 as prizes for our woods walk prize drawing. No complaints about them yet. Best buy for the money and just starting out.

NOW, about the TVM rifles, they are great.
I have (between my boys and I) 5 TVM's Early and Late Lancaster style. They have all been reliable and great shooters. Matt and Toni Avance are good people thatproduce a good product. If you can swing the extra money this is the one.

If you are just starting out with MZ's and money is short then get the Cabela's Kentucky rifle and make sure you're going to stick with it.

Good Luck and I hope all works out. Please excuse my directivew type of writing I spent several years in USMC.
BKC

 

[thewho66]

Dont leave out Caywood they make a semi custome gun as well. You need to look at all the places to purchase and make your choice from there. I went with Caywood for the reason I could get in in about 2 months as will as that I could get a different barrel later if I wanted. Look around and if you save your money for a semi or custume gun you will be more than happy with your choice, on the full custome side you have Mike Brooks, Roy , Old army and others to pick from. Take your time and then enjoy this great sport we have.

John

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Saving up for a better rifle is a great idea, especially with flintlocks. In the $1200 to $1500 you can find some fine used custom/semi-custom rifles. They are worth the wait. Check Track of the Wolf's site for an idea of what's available.

The Italian production guns do not even begin to compare to a semi-custom rifle and carry astronomical prices in view of the fit and finish and component quality issues they have. Most of the people singing their praises have little or no experience with better quality arms and naturally think that a Pedersoli, for example, is as good as it gets. There are definitely better rifles out there and they also offer uniqueness and historical accuracy, something a cookie cutter machine made gun can't.