Shooting Long-Range for Elk

[Idaho Ron]

IF, I were to hunt elk with a 45 caliber lead bullet, I would be looking at something between 350 and 450 grains with a wide Meplat. I would cast it out of lead with a bit of tin in it (I use 40:1, resulting in a Brinell of around 8.5). Some folks find they need to be at 8.0/8.5 for shooting accuracy in the Greenmountain LRH SS barrels. My LRH barrels are not SS (one is blue, one has been browned) and both seem to shoot 'pure' lead well. I like the 40:1 because the bullets seem to really stay put on the powder charge. I have had pure lead bullets move. Not a good thing.

Can't recommend a lead bullet for elk, as I have never shot an elk, but what I would use right now is the 11MM bullet IdahoRon suggested some time back. My RCBS mold (44-370-FN) I believe casts a slug just over 400 grains (would have to check on weight). Paper patched and sized (again as IdahoRon suggests) it does everything I want to 300 yards and beyond.

You really need to hear from IdahoRon, he is the subject matter expert on this topic.

Below are a couple photographs of the mold for an idea of what the bullet looks like.

Thanks, The RCBS 11mm bullet is a great bullet. I harden them between 8 and 9 BHN. I have no doubt in my mind that those 408 grain bullets would easily take an elk. My load with 80 gr of Pyrodex P is the same as the original 45-70 load. Those rifles put an end to many elk and Bison.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I am shooting a side Hammer with peep sights. I am using 90 Grains of Swiss Powder and a 400 grain paper patch pure lead bullet. I am reasonable accurate to 300 yards with cross-sticks with a 8" groups at that distance and a 4 1/2" groups with a lead sled. The muzzle speed of the bullet is 1450 FPS.

The question is simply this: With the parameters above how long is the longest shot a person can reasonable ethically shoot an elk. I drew a limited entry ML hunt for elk in Utah. I know what I think, but thought it would be interesting in what all of you think.

I am a big believer in slightly hardened bullets. My own 45 shoots the RCBS 11mm bullet between 8 and 9 BHN. I have a lot of experience with that bullet on game. I would take a shot at 150 in the blink of an eye on elk if it were legal. While I could easily put a bullet into the vitals of an elk at 300 yards if the wind was right, I don't support it on the first shot. If I needed a follow up shot YES I would take a 300 yard shot. At that point I have the animal hit I would hit it again.So far I have never been in that spot to have to take another shot from that far out.
Here in Idaho I can't hunt elk with the 45. I can load the same bullet in a 45-70 and it would be legal. We have a law that keeps 45's from hunting elk because guys would use a PRB.
I use my 50 with the Lee 500 S&W bullet. It has that wide meplat that is devastating on game.
I honestly would keep your shots at 150 or less. If you have a 200 yard shot and your comfortable at that, well it is your decision not mine. The wind is hard to judge.
I took a trip up to 8000 foot in elevation to test the effects of elevation on my loads. I also learned that wind direction can be misleading. Here is the video.

https://youtu.be/JmXOFFWCK_0

 

[cannonball1]

Back in 1972, Utah made hunting deer and elk legal and I might as well thrown my HP rifle away because it became all about muzzleloading after that. Shooting at targets at rendezvous, hunting deer with a muzzleloader every year until lately(the draw) and elk once in a while. Getting a deer was a every year occurrence until I started being very selective the last half of those years. I made and sold so many ML'ers, I would have a hard time counting them, with the best barrels money can buy. Why I am saying this is I feel I am no novice to hunting. The thing I have concentrated on is learning about is paper patching and feel I have gleaned information from the best, including some World Champion LR muzzleloading shooters. I have studied everything books and the internet has to offer. It has become such a obsession that the people at the range think I live there. That goes for all the information the (unmentionable muzzleloader) elk hunters have given me. 200 or less is about right in my opinion. In those 40+ years I did not wound hardly any deer and believe me if you did not know exactly where you hit you extensively followed up to where the animal was shot at spending a lot of time making sure there wasn't blood or hair. These young shooters don't follow up like the old timers. We all know a lot of times it is shoot and track regardless of the yardage.

 

[cannonball1]

The first part of this should have read that Utah made a special muzzleloading hunt available.

 

[Elkeater]

Maybe I'm ff but what comes to my mind is temperature, terrain and muscle. Can you get 300-400lbs of precious meat broke down and cooled down and out. Since its local for you I'm sure you have it covered, good luck!

 

[cannonball1]

It is off topic, but I will answer it. The gutless method is best for elk and even deer.

 

[mushka]

Personally shooting at a paper or metal target at 300 yards would be ethical. Shooting an elk at 300 yards for me would not be ethical for me. I've never shot my muzzle loaders past about 120 yards at inanimate targets as that is about the farthest that I can see well. Shooting at targets is ok, but shooting at living critters is a different matter. If I'm going to shoot an animal I want it DRT, not lost because of my bad shot. I can only speak for myself but I'm not into wounding animals, killing them quickly is my goal, and longer ranges don't do that for me.

 

[Elkeater]

It is off topic, but I will answer it. The gutless method is best for elk and even deer.

Your original question included "ethically shooting an elk", I chimed in. The gutless method does not work for me. I take the tenderloins, heart and liver.

 

[BrownBear]

It is off topic, but I will answer it. The gutless method is best for elk and even deer.

Your original question included "ethically shooting an elk", I chimed in. The gutless method does not work for me. I take the tenderloins, heart and liver.

We do a bit of both, all rolled into one. We do the gutless, THEN roll out the guts to get the tenderloins, heart, liver, kidney and more. Of course the roll-out occurs as a matter of course because we also take the ribs.

In AK you're obligated by law to take the neck meat and tenderloins as well as rib meat at least or the ribs. Failure to do so is "wanton waste" and they enforce the heck out of it. Something for visiting hunters to remember. Lots haven't and paid stiff fines as a result.

 

[azmntman]

I tried it once when I had to do a pack out. Guy helping me was really fast at it and he got the tenderloins out. Still, being a meat hunter I reluctantly walked away from what I thought was ALOT of meat. Never do it again if possible, I will instead quarter em and pack out the bones. Iv'e seen my butcher at work and he actually does better than I would at scrapping all the meat off the bones. Ground is GREAT for lottsa meals, taco, burrito, burgers, lasagna, sloppy joes, meatloaf, casseroles galore etc etc. :grin:

 

[cannonball1]

Maybe I'm ff Since its local for you I'm sure you have it covered, good luck!

This hunt is actually not a local hunt. I drew for a hunt that borders Bryce Canyon National Park. Spectacular scenic country and a chance for a really nice bull for the young and rough. I am neither. The people in the know say that there is a 400 bull down there. I am going down to look at the monster buck that reside on that unit. A bull would be a bonus.

 

[fleener]

Would a 45-90 be enough rifle to kill an elk at 300 yards?

If I practiced and knew what I and the rifle could do at that range would it be an ethical shot?

Fleener

 

[azmntman]

300 yd shot? sure take it! Just make sure it not 306 yards :shocked2:

 

[azmntman]

....or 292 yds :hmm: trajectory. hope for a clean miss?

 

[fleener]

No doubt about it, accurate range finder and knowing what to do with your sights are a must.

Gets back to knowing what you and your rifle can do. Both in positive and negative limitations.

A 300 yard shot with the right setup is not a big deal. Might be for some people, but most people have not tried it.

Those that have no experience with it are the first to tell you that you cant do it.

Fleener

 

[azmntman]

Im would bet big money I could do it. Heck I did it at 180 twice with KY windage. I just dont ever plan to do it so I dont practice it EVER. My max range is about 125 yds for an elk, 100 for a deer. I hunt mostly from blinds these days and set p usually produces a shot at 50 or less.

Like ya said, others can do it fine and more power to em. I'd love to take a buff at 1000 yards like back in the day. MY GAWD they musta had better eyes than me, I couldn't make out a buff from the tree it stood by at that distance. But they did it. It can be done.

:idunno:

 

[cannonball1]

Would a 45-90 be enough rifle to kill an elk at 300 yards?

If I practiced and knew what I and the rifle could do at that range would it be an ethical shot?

Fleener

Most ML hunter can't make a 150 yard ethical shot. They bring out the gun the night before elk and deer hunts. To me 300 yards would probably be ethical to 1% of ML hunters.

 

[azmntman]

Ethics is a personal thing.

Several years ago I had a chance to kill a cow across a canyon about 150 yd shot. It was about 1/2 hour before darkness. It had just started to sprinkle. The cow was standing there watching me with twin calves. The truck was about 1/4 mile away. I scoped her, changed position, scoped her again, stood up and put my scope caps on. My buddy was astonished. It was the last day. I let him know my ethics did not include killing a cow 150 yards down and up a deep canyon in the dark in the rain and gutting and quartering her while two calves mewed at me. Then making 2 trips to the truck. I really wanted 300lbs of meat. But not that bad :shake:

I buddy I know is always saying "no lead nothings dead". He will shoot at anything, running, trotting standing, far, near up, down, cold hot. He just wants to Kill something. I am sure he has ethics but I have stopped hunting with him and never did get close to figuring out where/what they were. :idunno:

 

[azmntman]

Would a 45-90 be enough rifle to kill an elk at 300 yards?

If I practiced and knew what I and the rifle could do at that range would it be an ethical shot?

Fleener

Most ML hunter can't make a 150 yard ethical shot. They bring out the gun the night before elk and deer hunts. To me 300 yards would probably be ethical to 1% of ML hunters.

Agree, maybe up to 5%. Ater all we choose to limit our abilities to make meat. If it was dire that I fed the family I would shoot the deer at 300 yds with a .243. I can make it w/o the meat and choose to shoot it (or not :shocked2: ) at 50-100 yds max. If I cant get closer or talk it into coming closer I eat beef and it grows another year :grin:

To answer the OP question, Yep that would do it if ya hit it in the boiler room :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

I tried shooting a gong at 400 yrds with my 50 cal and maxi balls....couldn't hit it....all around it but couldn't hit it....possible the bullet was destabilizing but my sights definitely weren't up to the task.

And I'm no stranger to distance.