Shooting Minie's out of Armi Sport 1861 Springfield

[TexasAndy]

So I believe from what I read today my Armi Sport 1861 Sprinfield has a 1/66 twist rate. I realize that means its optimized for round ball and it's been at 20 years since I shot it. I have cast and shot Lee's 58 cal Minie from it and I don't remember there being issues but I have no clue what the accuracy might be like since I don't remember. Can anyone with more experience share their thoughts please?

 

[Zonie]

The Rifled Muskets like the 1861 Springfield all have very few rifling grooves. Usually 3.
The grooves were designed to work with the hollow base Minie' Bullets that expand into the grooves on firing.

Because there are few rifling grooves, a tight ball/patch combination is needed if round balls are going to be shot with any accuracy.

 

[hawkeye2]

The Armi Sport Springfield is designed to shoot minies, 3 shallow lands/grooves and they do it very well. Minies are not like bullets and they work best with a slow twist. I have 3 barrels lined by Bobby Hoyt in what he claims in his most accurate twist for minies, 1 in 60".

 

[TexasAndy]

Thanks guys

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have an 1853 Armi San Paoli that has an almost exact same barrel on it.
I get much better accuracy from a .575 ball and .015 patch than any conical I have tried - Minnies, REALS, TCs, etc......
It's a fun gun to shoot. And shooting round ball is a lot cheaper!

 

[Griz44Mag]

I got curious about the twist - so I dug it out of the safe and measured the twist - It's seems to be a 1:32 twist rate.
Curious......

 

[jlatz]

In past years I have used the '61 Armi Sport in skirmish events. For target work a Lyman .575 target minnie was used with 45 graims of fff. I sized and lubed the minnies out of the mold. The load gave very good accuracy at 50 and 100 yards.

 

[TNGhost]

Check your bore size, it is very important when shooting Minies. You can pick up sample packs of various diameters of Minies to try at TOW or on Gunbroker. When y ou find the one that works buy a mold or sizer for it.

It really makes a big difference in accuracy. My Cook and Brother Carbine is pretty consistent around 4" with ,575 traditional Lee Minies. My Zouave was lucky to get them in 18" After much experimentation with powder loads bullet designs etc, I found that diameter was the big variable and that my Zouave liked .578 and it now behaves as well as its little brother.

 

[dave951]

We shoot minies in competition in the N-SSA. Bore to minie dia is critical. So is powder, cap and lube. Get it in balance and assuming no issues with the barrel and the accuracy will be very good. Both my Parker Hales are 2moa performers.

Best place to get minies to try out is Lodgewood. Look under accessories for bullets by CWBulletman. Pat is a long time member of the N-SSA and knows his business with minies. While Track may sell them, I’d work with a person who is intimately associated with minies.

 

[hawkeye2]

A long time ago I had a side business and sold a number of Armi Sport products. One was a 61 that went to a woman on our team and we cut it down into a 2 bander for her. I was very impressed with the smooth finish to the rifling and sharp edges on the lands. It shot well for her for years. The weakest point of the gun was the lock which took a fair amount of work to get up to match quality. I'm sorry I don't remember the twist rate but 1 in 66" is probably correct or very close. With a proper fitting minie, good lube and some load development I would say an Armi Sport barrel should make a great skirmish gun. Slug your bore and follow dave951's advise about minies.

 

[Muddly]

The thing to remember about rifle muskets and minies is they were designed to be combat weapons, not target rifles. The slow twist collects less fouling. Can't call a time out to clean in the middle of a fire fight.
The minie stabilizes in 2 ways. The rifling is obvious. But it also drag stabilizes. Think of a badminton birdie. If the minie starts to pitch/ yaw in flight, air resistance tends to nudge it back. Genius really. Greenhill says a Lyman 575213OS needs a 1-48 to stabilize. Yet they fly just fine from even a 1-78 with the proper load and minie diameter.
My first muzzleloading hunting rifle was my Euroarms P53 Enfield. Also used her to shoot Yankees on the weekends. A 575213OS and 65 grains of Elephant 3f shot to the sights out to 100 yards. 4 deer for her. Afterwards, every yankee I pulled down on made me gulp. I knew what those minies could do...
Formerly Ordnance sergeant E Co. 1st Texas Vol. Infy. C.S.A.
Deo Vindice!

 

[hawkeye2]

Muddly you have made very important point, something that I wish everyone understood. None of the formulas apply to a minie. They all use the projectile length in the data for the calculations but don't account for the center of mass or center of gravity being concentrated in the foreword part of the bullet.