I went out shooting my .62 smoothie yesterday and after a few patched RB shots, I started just dropping the ball in without patching it. It would go down about halfway (it was a .600 size ball) and then I could easily push it down to pack on the powder. My accuracy at about 40 yards did not seem to suffer any. Cleaning did not seem any worse either. I was wondering if anyone else does this? It sure was much easier and faster to load when just target shooting. Thanks
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Shooting my .62 smoothbore with a round ball and no patch
- Thread starter psyptak
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A lot of folks shoot "Bare Ball" - if you do a search I'm sure you'll find a lot, as the subject comes up regularly. The only thing about Bare Balling is that you will probably encounter some leading when cleaning, and leading, while no big deal, requires a slightly different approach when cleaning...water & soap won't take care of it.
Eric
Eric
Len Graves
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While shooting smooth bore without a patch is probably period correct, i hesitate shooting like that. While accuracy may not be affected much. I worry about safety. I know while on a target range our firearms are pointed up, what I am about to say will not be so much affected. Is it not possible for the ball to roll toward the muzzle if the gun were pointed down? I know of several "woods walks" that the targets are in valleys. Would it not be possible to turn that projectile into an obstruction? I don't think patching a ball takes all that much time. In an emergency (rather than be eaten) I would use a non patched ball. This is just my thought/ opinion. Perhaps something to think about.
Capt. Jas.
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Compromise and wad it then. Period correct and works well. :thumbsup: I sometimes shoot bare naked with a coked barrel just plinking at the range but I wad fore and aft when hunting.
Len Graves said:
Usually they insist you load after you arrive at the next shooting station. I guess it depends on the shoot.
But when hunting there is that risk.
Grandpa Ron
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Several of my friends shoot bare ball. They usually use a card wad over the ball on the first few shots, then they depend on the fowling to hold the ball in place. I do not know what they do hunting, when there is a chance the gun might be knocked about and the ball loosened.
Others use wadding on top and between. I must admit the better shooters I know use a patched ball and a stout charge.
Myself, I have tried several methods but found the patched round ball to be the easiest. When I am with a group that wants to use traditional loading methods, I will use wadding to hold the ball in place.
I have been shooting a long time so perhaps I am set in my ways but I was only issued 10 fingers and I would hate to break a matched set. :wink:
Others use wadding on top and between. I must admit the better shooters I know use a patched ball and a stout charge.
Myself, I have tried several methods but found the patched round ball to be the easiest. When I am with a group that wants to use traditional loading methods, I will use wadding to hold the ball in place.
I have been shooting a long time so perhaps I am set in my ways but I was only issued 10 fingers and I would hate to break a matched set. :wink:
satwel
40 Cal.
Ditto what Len said. The danger in shooting a smoothbore without patch or wad is that the ball rolls back up the barrel just before it is fired and it turns into an obstruction, bursting the barrel. Frankly, I don't understand why some smoothbore shooters are so eager to bare-ball. The convenience just isn't worth the risk. A loose fitting patch and ball combo that can be started with thumb pressure is all you need to be safe. It's not that hard.
paulvallandigham
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You will need to use a modern lead solvent( like Hoppe's #9) to clean the lead out of that bore if you insist on bare ball shooting. A bore brush simple can't get it down well enough by itself.
If you grease the bore before shooting that Lead ball, the grease will protect the bore from leading. But, that requires that you clean the bore between shots, and that is obviously what you are trying to avoid doing.
I will never understand why you and others want to do this. If you want to shoot fast, find a suppository gun and have a great day! MLers are best shot when accuracy, and deliberation- a "gentleman's sport", I once heard this described--represents your frame of mind.
I don't like the snobbish ring to that "gentleman's sport" comment, as I am anything but snobbish about my guns.
However, there is something very satisfying about shooting my MLers when all around me are spraying bullets down range, as I carefully clean, and then load my gun for my next shot. When I take careful aim, and achieve a good hit on my target, all those guys around me with their thundersticks can't believe that I can shoot a flintlock with that kind of accuracy, using iron sights, at 50 and 100 yds.
When I shoot a group that is half or even less the size of their groups, using scope sights, I have seen men pack up their guns and leave the range in a huff, muttering to themselves.
Its a fine way to enjoy a day at the range. Even more fun is shooting trap and skeet targets with my MLers along side the guys shooting $10,000 guns. They don't want to believe its possible to break clay targets with my guns!
OH, the inhumanity of it all!! :blah: :rotf: :rotf: :grin:
There are NO short cuts in shooting these guns. They have been around for 500 years! If a short cut existed, we would all be using it. :shocked2: :v
Think about that. :hmm: :hatsoff:
If you grease the bore before shooting that Lead ball, the grease will protect the bore from leading. But, that requires that you clean the bore between shots, and that is obviously what you are trying to avoid doing.
I will never understand why you and others want to do this. If you want to shoot fast, find a suppository gun and have a great day! MLers are best shot when accuracy, and deliberation- a "gentleman's sport", I once heard this described--represents your frame of mind.
I don't like the snobbish ring to that "gentleman's sport" comment, as I am anything but snobbish about my guns.
However, there is something very satisfying about shooting my MLers when all around me are spraying bullets down range, as I carefully clean, and then load my gun for my next shot. When I take careful aim, and achieve a good hit on my target, all those guys around me with their thundersticks can't believe that I can shoot a flintlock with that kind of accuracy, using iron sights, at 50 and 100 yds.
When I shoot a group that is half or even less the size of their groups, using scope sights, I have seen men pack up their guns and leave the range in a huff, muttering to themselves.
Its a fine way to enjoy a day at the range. Even more fun is shooting trap and skeet targets with my MLers along side the guys shooting $10,000 guns. They don't want to believe its possible to break clay targets with my guns!
OH, the inhumanity of it all!! :blah: :rotf: :rotf: :grin:
There are NO short cuts in shooting these guns. They have been around for 500 years! If a short cut existed, we would all be using it. :shocked2: :v
Think about that. :hmm: :hatsoff:
paulvallandigham
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Yep. And they are some of the worst offenders, when it comes to cleaning their guns properly.
I have cleaned out several guns personally, and have discussed this with half a dozen gunsmiths I know.All of us share the experience of having to spend time with lead solvents soaking out the lead they leave in these guns, and then check the barrel for rust pits hidden by the lead they didn't clean out, because of these practices.
Back in the days of the CW, the Government paid for the rifles, and for any repairs or replacements. Only a Tough sgt. screaming at his men, and making them keep those guns clean kept the guns working. RE-enactors don't have someone inspecting those guns and getting on their case, for the most part( it varies from unit to unit, I am told) so its not surprising to find guns that are almost caked shut with accumulated fouling and lead. Most never fire live bullets or balls from their guns. I have a good friend who is in a Cavalry unit, and shoots an original Springfield. He has never fired a single bullet through it, and asked me if ammo is even available. His unit apparently fires black powder BLANKS.
I have cleaned out several guns personally, and have discussed this with half a dozen gunsmiths I know.All of us share the experience of having to spend time with lead solvents soaking out the lead they leave in these guns, and then check the barrel for rust pits hidden by the lead they didn't clean out, because of these practices.
Back in the days of the CW, the Government paid for the rifles, and for any repairs or replacements. Only a Tough sgt. screaming at his men, and making them keep those guns clean kept the guns working. RE-enactors don't have someone inspecting those guns and getting on their case, for the most part( it varies from unit to unit, I am told) so its not surprising to find guns that are almost caked shut with accumulated fouling and lead. Most never fire live bullets or balls from their guns. I have a good friend who is in a Cavalry unit, and shoots an original Springfield. He has never fired a single bullet through it, and asked me if ammo is even available. His unit apparently fires black powder BLANKS.
"Ditto what Len said. The danger in shooting a smoothbore without patch or wad is that the ball rolls back up the barrel just before it is fired and it turns into an obstruction, bursting the barrel. Frankly, I don't understand why some smoothbore shooters are so eager to bare-ball. The convenience just isn't worth the risk. A loose fitting patch and ball combo that can be started with thumb pressure is all you need to be safe."
You will find scores of people on this and other forums who use wadding and or cards W/O patches and have for years often above and below the ball this is not differrent than using a typical shot load most use, I have yet to see anyone mention any safety concerns or burt barrels traced back to this meythod which by the way was the way it was done for a couple of hundred years in the past,there are likley more barrels burst from short staring balls in dirty barrels while pathced, to universaly condemn the method that has a long string of followers and safe track record is really not in the interest of realistic, rational, factual, information sharing.Sharing opinions are fine but one really needs to know where the line between valid opinion and totaly unsuported speculation lays, if I am wrong about the lack of serious safety isssue with a non pathced ball in a smootbore if all typical safety practices are equal I would be very interested to see the evidence, something concrete in nature not just some "IfS" which are easily countered with nulifying "IFS" from the other camp.
You will find scores of people on this and other forums who use wadding and or cards W/O patches and have for years often above and below the ball this is not differrent than using a typical shot load most use, I have yet to see anyone mention any safety concerns or burt barrels traced back to this meythod which by the way was the way it was done for a couple of hundred years in the past,there are likley more barrels burst from short staring balls in dirty barrels while pathced, to universaly condemn the method that has a long string of followers and safe track record is really not in the interest of realistic, rational, factual, information sharing.Sharing opinions are fine but one really needs to know where the line between valid opinion and totaly unsuported speculation lays, if I am wrong about the lack of serious safety isssue with a non pathced ball in a smootbore if all typical safety practices are equal I would be very interested to see the evidence, something concrete in nature not just some "IfS" which are easily countered with nulifying "IFS" from the other camp.
i agree, the guys i shoot with take care of their guns. most clean the weapons right after shooting for the day. i am about to buy an 1842 springfield[original] for skirmish shooting. i am amazed how accurate these guns are with bare ball. these are some knowledgeable guys to be around, they are helpful too.
Len Graves said:
Yes, absolutely possible. It happened with my Brown Bess. I won't do it that way anymore.
"cw skirmishers bare ball shoot."
"Yep. And they are some of the worst offenders, when it comes to cleaning their guns properly."
Paul, as a N-SSA skirmisher of about 26 years (my wife has about 15 years in) I must take exception to your statement. Skirmishing requres a fair degree of accuracy combined with speed and consistency. None of these goals are met by using a dirty firearm and most skirmishers take very good care of their bores, Hoyt, Whitaker and original barrels don't grow on trees. While shooting in the rain (Shenandoah sunshine) and sometimes even snow take their toll of the exterior the innards are well kept. Perhaps you were thinking of the "typical" (as viewed by most shooters)reenactor.
"Yep. And they are some of the worst offenders, when it comes to cleaning their guns properly."
Paul, as a N-SSA skirmisher of about 26 years (my wife has about 15 years in) I must take exception to your statement. Skirmishing requres a fair degree of accuracy combined with speed and consistency. None of these goals are met by using a dirty firearm and most skirmishers take very good care of their bores, Hoyt, Whitaker and original barrels don't grow on trees. While shooting in the rain (Shenandoah sunshine) and sometimes even snow take their toll of the exterior the innards are well kept. Perhaps you were thinking of the "typical" (as viewed by most shooters)reenactor.
paulvallandigham
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I am sure that our differences are based in the language used by these folks, but around here, the guys shooting blanks call themselves "skirmishers", not re-enactors. If they were period costumes, they are re-enactors to me. But, they more often call themselves "skirmishers", and have all kinds of rules for safety as they face off against each other, firing their blanks in each other's direction. That is how I know the term. I have only been to a few unit re-enactments where live fire contests were done.
I recall one live fire demonstration- with not all the shooters dressed in full costume-- where accurate off-hand shooting at 50 yd. targets were the Match of the day. I did see some good shooting done, and attended the event at the invitation of a friend. I was Not then into Black Powder shooting, so I just spectated.
It was several years later that I learned about how poorly the blank shooters cleaned their guns, and then began talking to gunsmiths, and other Traditional BP shooters whenever the subject came up about their observations.
All this information formed the basis of my decision to stay away from these groups. I enjoy the history, and spent way too much of my college history doing research on that period of time, but I don't want to be around people who create safety problems by not cleaning their guns properly.
And, frankly, I did all my "Play-acting" as a kid, with toy guns. When I shoot a real gun, I want a ball or bullet coming out of the end, and heading for a target now. Since the ground is SO flat around here, its next to impossible to find a safe backstop to shoot into with rifles of any kind, much less those heavy .58 cal. Minie balls.
For that reason, we see more "blank" shooters, calling themselves "skirmishers" than real skirmishers, such as you see out East in Virginia, and Pennsylvania.
I should have made that distinction more clear in my post. Please accept my apology for any confusion. I intended NO insult to those folks who do it right! :bow: :surrender: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
I recall one live fire demonstration- with not all the shooters dressed in full costume-- where accurate off-hand shooting at 50 yd. targets were the Match of the day. I did see some good shooting done, and attended the event at the invitation of a friend. I was Not then into Black Powder shooting, so I just spectated.
It was several years later that I learned about how poorly the blank shooters cleaned their guns, and then began talking to gunsmiths, and other Traditional BP shooters whenever the subject came up about their observations.
All this information formed the basis of my decision to stay away from these groups. I enjoy the history, and spent way too much of my college history doing research on that period of time, but I don't want to be around people who create safety problems by not cleaning their guns properly.
And, frankly, I did all my "Play-acting" as a kid, with toy guns. When I shoot a real gun, I want a ball or bullet coming out of the end, and heading for a target now. Since the ground is SO flat around here, its next to impossible to find a safe backstop to shoot into with rifles of any kind, much less those heavy .58 cal. Minie balls.
For that reason, we see more "blank" shooters, calling themselves "skirmishers" than real skirmishers, such as you see out East in Virginia, and Pennsylvania.
I should have made that distinction more clear in my post. Please accept my apology for any confusion. I intended NO insult to those folks who do it right! :bow: :surrender: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
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