Shooting my .62 smoothbore with a round ball and no patch

[tg]

"Perhaps you were thinking of the "typical" (as viewed by most shooters)reenactor."

Many times obsevations may not be as accurate as could be due to the "big fish in a small pond' syndrome

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Paul,

I agree. I grew up in the school that thought a person should seek the most accurate shooting his gun and commitment to the sport would offer. In muzzle loading it meant finding the proper charge, lube, lead, stance etc. Today there are many who still seek this goal.

However for some, the goal is historical accuracy, so bare ball, various wadding types, thumb pressed balls, paper cartridges and several other methods mentioned in the writings of the past are used.

I understand the idea of seeing how well these old methods work and in truth they often provide sufficient accuracy. They are also fun to experiment with.

As already mentioned the biggest concern is safety. Sure I trust the folks I know, they understand that a ball can hang up or shift to partway down the bore. But those whose experience is based on what they have read or observed others doing may not.

I would always have to recommend that some sort of wadding be used over the ball to keep it in place, rather than trust the fouling. I believe that most of the old methods did this.

I have also taught my grandkids to mark their ramrods at the proper depth. :grin:

 

[psyptak]

Grandpa Ron hit it on the head....All i did was experiment with maybe 10 shots without a patch. I have been shooting BP for over 30 yrs and have never tried it. After reading this post, i will not do it any longer as i am never in a hurry when loading and i painstakingly keep my guns clean. I was just asking the pros and cons -thanks again for all the good info

 

[dhobbs]

Shoot a smoothbore without a patched ball????Dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria :rotf: I read this and just had to respond. I have two smoothbores....my Carolina gun built by the late Dave Wagner and a Fusil Fin. I do shoot patched balls out of the french gun but NEVER shoot a patched ball out of the Carolina gun. The bore measures .600 and I shoot a .595 ball with spanish moss for wadding. Why do I do this....................because in the 1730's my ancestors loaded in this same manner. My goal for the Carolina gun was to create a historically accurate loading method to use on a smoothbore woodswalk where speed and accuracy are needed......all my team mates load the same way. As to deliberate loads I also shot an 8pt buck that now graces my wall using that same load.......I would imagine the last time a deer fell in my neck of the woods to a carolina gun and that type of load was pre-removal :thumbsup: To each his own.....if I had only loaded my guns as I had seen other people do at shoots over the years and never questioned (is there a differnt older way) I would have been cheated out of that experience. :v

Have a good weekend,
David

 

[paulvallandigham]

You will not find me writing anywhere, here, or elsewhere, NOT to shoot bare lead balls. I am concerned about safety issues, and the need for shooters to understand the EXTRA steps they will need in cleaning their guns if they do.

When shooting Bare lead shot, or when using plastic shot cups, you get streaks in the bore, and that causes patterns to deteriorate as the streaks build up. Lead deposits allow moisture to get under the lead, and rust the bore, where you can't see it. That leads to further problems over time.

If someone wants to shoot bare balls, or bare shot, go ahead. :grin: I have shot bare shot loads for years in my dbl. shotgun. But, I also take the time to clean it properly, using a lead solvent and bore brush to remove ALL the lead from the bore. If I am shooting in several matches, I will use the solvent and bore brush to clean the barrels between relays.

I got that idea( education) watching competitors shooting Trap matches at Friendship(NMLRA). They got my attention when I spotted more than one shooter with 2 or more range rods, each fitted with a different "head", or jag. When I noticed the bore brushes, I waited to watch and see when those were used. :hmm:

 

[tg]

"There are NO short cuts in shooting these guns. They have been around for 500 years! If a short cut existed, we would all be using it'

Teflon patches, bullets developed as result of modern R&D, sights the same, micro clisk peeps
and modern open adjustable, substitute powders supposedly better.cleaner, easier to use, good Lawd the list has no end to all the shortcuts (most having but the slimmest conection to the past, usually in a thread of terminology alone in common at best) people have came up with when they supposedly step back intime to an earler firearm technology then do anything and everything possible to make the gun shoot as fast and accurate as far and hit harder than the 'o6 they put away so theu could do things the old way, I find it hard to believe such a fuss over shooting a wadded ball would even go as far as it has and especialy with some of the thougts ....(or total lack thereof as it seems to me)at times it is hard to believe seeing so many heads stuck so far up so many.....vastly differing perceptions of reality. Have a good day gentlemen :hatsoff:

 

[majg1234]

:thumbsup:

 

[Ken Cormier]

I bare ball my Tulle only when shooting in speed match's to cut the pole fun as all get out. Other that I shoot patched r/b.

 

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I am only 60 so I have to depend on what I can acsess & read about the 300 years before I was born. But there seems to be a wide variance between what fellers did while hunting or shooting at a mark than what they had to do & did when defending themselves in life & death struggle with a determined enemy. Proper procedures can get thrown aside real fast when staying alive becomes essential as the opposing force is closing in with no intention of taking prisoners. Mike in Peru

 

[hanshi]

I've been trying to develop a good prb load for my smoothbore and "may" succeed. But that's a BIG "may". So far success has eluded me. I will try a couple more tricks and see what happens but if I can't find that load I'll be going back to a bare ball load. By using a lubed wad and os card or felt wad to hold the ball (.605") in, I can get 5 inch groups at 50 yards. That's not great accuracy but is certainly satisfactory for deer in the woods.

As far as leading goes, I cast with WW metal for my .62 smoothbore; don't need expansion with it anyway. I've got till deer season to come up with a prb load and I've still got my fingers crossed.

 

[Wayne/Al]

Hanshi, I just finshed a 12 Ga TVM fowler kit and will be working on a load as soon as this rain moves out. The bore on my barrel is .720 and I have some balls that are .715 and I will be trying them bare. I have heard of someone takeing a close fitting ball and rolling it under a file to rough the surface then dipping it in a mixture of olive oil and bees wax that would leave a coating on the ball. I am thinking about giveing it a try. Just thought I would pass it on to you. Something to consider. Good Luck with your load development.

Wayne/Al

 

[Birdwatcher]

I will never understand why you and others want to do this. If you want to shoot fast, find a suppository gun and have a great day! MLers are best shot when accuracy, and deliberation- a "gentleman's sport", I once heard this described--represents your frame of mind.

Here's a thought...

I was just up in New York State giving four nephews their first experience shooting a flinter. Target was a 30" by 30" board at maybe 100 yards.

.62 cal TVM fowler, .60 cal ball over 80 grains of FFG and a fiber wad, fiber wad over the ball.

A rapid fire situation; taking turns shooting, me reloading. Plinking really. Prob'ly about 25 rounds w/out cleaning beyond picking out the vent between shots. Ball and patches got snug but rammed down easily every time.

And offhand hits on that board were regular, even given these novice shooters.

Birdwatcher

 

[hanshi]

I tumble mine and like your idea of coating the ball. Worth a try, in my book.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yep. Minute of Barn door is quite doable if the range is short enough. :grin:

 

[Robby]

Way to go Birdwatcher, sounds like a good time. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Robby

 

[Birdwatcher]

Yep. Minute of Barn door is quite doable if the range is short enough :grin:

Aye, but here's the deal; when we missed we were high or low (easily visible in the dirt), understandable with novice shooters (as in not even a .22 or air rifle) and no rear sight, but we were in line with the 30" by 30" target every time.

Got me to thinking that someone "back in the days" with a similar load who was familiar with the gun could cut quite a swath on an advancing line at 100 yards, and even be hazardous to an enemy behind cover.

Birdwatcher

 

[Darkgael]

Paul:

Its a fine way to enjoy a day at the range. Even more fun is shooting trap and skeet targets with my MLers along side the guys shooting $10,000 guns. They don't want to believe its possible to break clay targets with my guns!

I know that the breaking part is a fact. My 20ga fowler will break machine thrown clay targets regularly.
It's the "along side the guys" part that has me thinking.
That'd have to be a very tolerant bunch - especially the Trap shooters - to allow a muzzleloader on the line. How do you keep up with the rhythm of the line? Even with five shooters, that next turn comes pretty rapidly. I can't do it at my club - just not allowed - nor do I believe that I could load another shot before the cycle returned to me (24 times),though I am sure there are faster loaders than I.
My standard 20 ga. fowler load is 70 grains FFg, 1 ounce of #6 shot, nitro card, 1/4" cushion wad, OS card. I will be trying the five OS card OP variation this Fall.
Pete

 

[Rifleman1776]

Paul:

Its a fine way to enjoy a day at the range. Even more fun is shooting trap and skeet targets with my MLers along side the guys shooting $10,000 guns. They don't want to believe its possible to break clay targets with my guns!

I know that the breaking part is a fact. My 20ga fowler will break machine thrown clay targets regularly.
It's the "along side the guys" part that has me thinking.
That'd have to be a very tolerant bunch - especially the Trap shooters - to allow a muzzleloader on the line. How do you keep up with the rhythm of the line? Even with five shooters, that next turn comes pretty rapidly. I can't do it at my club - just not allowed - nor do I believe that I could load another shot before the cycle returned to me (24 times),though I am sure there are faster loaders than I.
My standard 20 ga. fowler load is 70 grains FFg, 1 ounce of #6 shot, nitro card, 1/4" cushion wad, OS card. I will be trying the five OS card OP variation this Fall.
Pete

Saw a match on TV recently where the shooter simply leaves the line to reload. Another shooter who is loaded just steps up to fill that slot. The scorekeeper notes the hits and misses from the competitiors number. Works.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't even try to "Keep" up with the squad. I shoot the targets in addition to the 5 man squad of regular shooters, and stand to the left of the shooter on my station so he does not get hit with debris or fire from my flash pan. Score-keepers seem to have no trouble keeping track of my hits and misses :shocked2: ! Oh, there is some grumbling from the modern shooters about the smoke, and aroma, but once we begin shooting, they also begin to respect the capabilities of my gun to break targets, and begin to admire my courage to come out and shoot clays with them.

Usually at least one guy will ask to shoot my gun at targets between matches, and we get lots of spectators who think that recoil is directly associated with "SOUND". [NOT! :shake: :nono: ]
When that one courageous shooter "survives" shooting my gun- and even hits a target, he assures the rest of the gawkers that the gun recoils less than a modern gun will. Then, you get heads shaking, particularly when I offer to let anyone else shoot my gun.

These are in practice matches. I would have to make special arrangements if I were going to shoot my BP shotgun in a sanctioned or "registered" match, or at any club match where money or meat is awarded the top shot in a squad. Since most of those kinds of shoots are settled with long shots from behind the 27 yd. line, I would be very handicapped trying to use my cylinder bore MLer. For that reason, I have not made such an attempt. I stick to practice shoots.

Around here, a lot of clubs have 10-bird shoots, so that they can get more shooters an opportunity to shoot, rather than wait several hours before they finally get called to the line. With a DBL shotgun, If I get to shoot the first station first, then retire to reload, I can usually complete 3 of the five trap stations by the time all 5 shooters have shot the complete 5 stations. I then shoot the 4th station, and reload to shoot the fifth station- sometimes between the matches, and some times with the next squad. I then clean the gun and load it to shoot with the next squad.

I recently found that running a greased cleaning patch down the barrel before loading the first powder charge made cleaning between shots a one cleaning patch event, which has helped me speed up my reloading time.

Also, using only OS cards( Thank you, Iron Jim Rachham), with off-center holes poked into them using a nail or awl, lets me spend less time searching for the different wads I used to use, and that seems to have shortened my reloading time some, too.

The small holes lets the air come out of the card, thru the hole, rather than breaking an edge of the card, and destroying the seal there. Just align the cards so no two holes are lined up with the one next to it. I run 3 cards down on the powder, and 2 down on top of the shot.

I shoot #8 shot at clay targets, BTW. 1 1/8 oz. in my 12 ga. :thumbsup:

 

[Darkgael]

Thanks. I was, as I wrote, wondering how you did that.

Pete