Shooting the .451 Volunteer rifle :)

[Stantheman86]

I need to try wads with patched round balls now .... I'm looking at getting a .45 Pedersoli Tryon rifle (not the. 451 Creedmore) that I assume is a round ball barrel.

 

[TFoley]

Well, it has a 1:48 twist, so it might just both ball and bullet quite well.

 

[Stantheman86]

I have a box of these wierd .445 "heavy" 300 gr. Minies , plus some of the same type but shorter/lighter. If I get that rifle I'd try those, that way if I start casting this spring or summer I'll have some molds to look for.

I tried the lighter .445 Minies in the Volunteer and they flew all over the place.

 

[Stantheman86]

Caught a small break, the old, modified front sight came out with a few taps to the brass punch (left to right side) then the Redfield front globe went in just as easy. Now ,I just realized Redfield used a just slightly larger globe than Lyman so now I've got to hunt down a Redfield post insert.

I like it, vastly improved sight picture, I can use the rear sight since I'm not putting a tang sight on this one, and it looks somewhat at least 1870's-1890's "period" if not to the production era of the rifle....but these remained popular in England into the 1890's at gun clubs.

 

[ResearchPress]

...somewhat at least 1870's-1890's "period" if not to the production era of the rifle....but these remained popular in England into the 1890's at gun clubs.

Somewhat optimistic I think to suggest these rifles were popular into the 1890's... The 'heyday' for the muzzle loading military target rifle was the 1860s. Through that decade though the match rifle evolved with its characteristic half stock, pistol grip, heavy barrel, no ram rod, vernier sights... The death knell for the muzzle loader was the defeats in international matches by US teams with breech loaders in the 1870s. By 1878 there were even calls from within the ranks of the NRA(UK) to abandon the muzzle loader in competition. Given that many muzzle loaders were still in the hands of private persons, it was however pointed out that this would destroy their value and many would not face the expense of new rifles, with resultant loss in competition entries. They were just left to quietly fade away.

David

 

[BillinOregon]

David, it must be some of these rifles that "quietly faded away," properly preserved, that are seeing new life on the long-range butts today -- such as the Oakridge match coming up. I am always surprised and pleased at the number of originals in the equipment lists.

 

[fleener]

Bill you are starting to make feel guilty for planning on take a replica to Oakridge this year.

Fleener

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm just going by what I've read about 1880's-1890's English gun clubs like Wimbledon where they state that muzzleloaders like the Whitworth remained popular with some riflemen after the breech loading metallic cartridge rifle came into use.

As fictional as it is they also show this in Episode 3 (I think) of Ripper Street where it's the year 1889 but a sniper uses a Whitworth to shoot stagecoach horses and rob them. The Detectives go to a high end rifle club and the range master tells them a few shooters still favor the Whitworth, and they show guys in suits and coats loading muzzleloaders. Definitely worth checking out if you have Netflix.

 

[ResearchPress]

Wimbledon Common was the land used by the NRA(UK) to host their Annual Rifle Meeting. The military target rifles (such as the generically styled Volunteer repros.) had a relatively short life span. Full match rifles evolved through the 1860s and at the same time the dominance of Whitworths waned, being supplanted by Gibbs-Metford and Rigby rifles. By 1869 for example no Whitworths were used by any competitors in the Elcho Shield Match (teams of eight from England, Scotland & Ireland). Rifles Volunteers were using breech loaders in 1871.

David

 

[Heelerau]

My late father had several packets of paper cartridges for a whit worth target rifle, they had plain sided hollow based bullets, no expander plug. The cartridges looked ver much like a thinner version of the typical Enfield service paper cartridge. Where did you get those bullets from? I shoot a first generation PH Volunteer with Rigby rifling, typically 85 grains of ffg with a 475 grain bullet out to 200 yds. I only wipe with a wet patch after I have put the charge down and followed it with a felt wad over powder then a card wad. No getting moisture into the patent breech that way. Always have to prime under the cone for the first shot, I use platinum cones from Buffalo Arms.

 

[Stantheman86]

Interesting info, ironically I just had a similar talk with the guy at my range who runs the Buffalo Rifle matches. Those guys love old rifles and I'm like, would you guys let me compete with a Parker-Hale .58 Enfield with paper patched Pritchett cartridges, vs their Sharps and Rolling Blocks, etc. They said any large bore single **** in a caliber and style correct to before 1890 is fine plus they were fascinated at the idea of someone trying the metal silhouette match with a front stuffer. I'd feel ok doing it with Pritchett cartridges.

We have to keep in mind that these rifles were very expensive (as pointed out above) and figure, for example, I have a Bushmaster heavy barrel "match" rifle that is only recommended for match grade ammo. It was a $2,000 rifle 20 years ago. That would be like if I bought that rifle for regular matches and 3 years later I was told I had to buy something else because AR's were phased out and I had to spend $2-3000 on a new rifle.

 

[Heelerau]

In my old black powder club back in South Australia we used to shoot a silhouette match agin the lever action boys, was always a toss up as to whether a muzzle loader or a britch loader won the event. I shoot paper cartridges out of my PH two bander and I reckon they should do fine with the steel targets (pritchett bullets)

 

[Stantheman86]

I have two Musketoons but I'm on the hunt for a 2-bander. The Musketoons are quick loading with the Pritchett tubes though.

I have 80 of them waiting to be loaded with powder , the last batch shot mediocre with 2f, I was told 1.5f works better.

 

[Stantheman86]

Does anyone know the thread pitch for the rear sight screw for the Birmingham made rifles? The last owner galled up the rear sight/spring screw in an attempt to do what , I dont know, but it looks like he bent the spring trying to do some home brew elevation thing....looking to drop in a new spring and screw but I don't know if the original Enfield thread will work or if the current Pedersoli threads are the same.

 

[Heelerau]

Most of of us that shoot the pritchett bullet find FFFg works best, my worst results were with FG, and only reasonable results with FFg.

 

[TFoley]

Does anyone know the thread pitch for the rear sight screw for the Birmingham made rifles? The last owner galled up the rear sight/spring screw in an attempt to do what , I dont know, but it looks like he bent the spring trying to do some home brew elevation thing....looking to drop in a new spring and screw but I don't know if the original Enfield thread will work or if the current Pedersoli threads are the same.

Current Pedersoli threads are, in my experience, all metric. Much of the thread pattern of ALL the Enfields, Parker-Hale as well as the originals, was actually known as the Enfield thread - nothing else fits.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'll have to just load up 20 each with different powders and see what my rifle likes, Brett, who makes the cartridge says he uses 1.5f , I have tried 2f and got "combat" accuracy at best, I just have to try 3f and 1.5f to see what's going on. I hadn't even thought of trying 3f but I will now.

Dixie sells original British rear sight screws for $7 I'm just gonna order one.

 

[TFoley]

I'll have to just load up 20 each with different powders and see what my rifle likes, Brett, who makes the cartridge says he uses 1.5f , I have tried 2f and got "combat" accuracy at best, I just have to try 3f and 1.5f to see what's going on. I hadn't even thought of trying 3f but I will now.

Dixie sells original British rear sight screws for $7 I'm just gonna order one.

Good plan. BTW, the British military powder grade was known as 'fine grade rifle powder' - the nearest we get to that these days is about halfway between 2Fg and 3Fg. Good luck.

 

[Stantheman86]

You would think Swiss would make a 2.5g

 

[TFoley]

The Swiss didn't shoot the Enfield.