Shooting TWO patched balls?

[Marc Adamchek]

Reading about modern hunting in Africa with Muzzleloaders. Esteemed BP hunter Don Kettelkamp is one of the authors. He relates the following:

In 1966 a gent named Charles Wilcox went hunting in southwest Angola. He "used 2 custom rifles, a Lancaster style flintlock in .577 calibre and a .50 calibre Hawken style percussion, both with Wm. Large barrels".

To take a black rhinoceros "he used the flintlock .577 with two patched round balls in front of 400 grains of FFg (not a recommended load or practice)".

Now gentlemen, I ask you, have you EVER heard of such a thing before, and what degree of insanity would you assign to this "practice"?

Am I missing something or wouldn't there be a possible chance that the 2 prb's could not clear the barrel and the rifle could turn into a bomb?

At any rate, I'm interested in hearing some voices of experience address this.

 

Marc,
There have been many people shoot a double loaded, ball not powder, charge with no ill effect. It's certainly not the normal practice but if one is careful to have both balls seated properly there should not be a problem. At reasonable range the balls will usually hit fairly close to each other but not on top of each other. It will obviously increase the recoil also.
Mark

 

[Richard J.]

Worked with a guy that couldnt hit a deer with a flintlock if his life depended on it. Came up with the brilliant idea to put 120 gr. of BP in it and 4 patched balls on top. Seen a big doe and pulled the trigger. Blew out the touch hole, broke stock and he had a shoulder that was black and blue along with his arm and ribs. Said he didnt know what hit him. A couple of weeks later I got to see his weapon. Buldge in the barrel also. What an idiot. Bet he wont do that again. I know his wife was not very happy about it. New gun also.

RJ

 

[Claude Mathis]

Sounds familiar. :wink:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/263815

 

[zoomer]

Thompson center used to have info on double balling in their manuals loading section included with their hawkin rifles.

 

[old ugly]

i used to hunt in an area that you were only alowed to hunt with shot gun with multiple projectiles, my nsw old english shot many loads with 2 balls. worked great.

 

[roundball]

Just chatted with Don this week, we belong to the same Trap & Skeet club.

Double ball loads are not a new thing...FWIW I've tested double ball loads at the range in .40/.45/.50cals and they're actually very accurate (at least out to the 50yds I tested)... the .45s and .50s printed about an inch or so apart and the pair of .40s made a single figure-8 shaped hole.

I patched each one separately, short started each one separately so they ended up sitting atop each other, then I seated them both down as a single projectile...not a problem.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

If I recall correctly, this gentlemans story appeared in Muzzle Blasts back in1967-68? If he is the same individual he was Hollywood stuntman who kept loosing body parts. He shot lft handed aftr loosing his right eye only to switch Back after loosing his lft hand. Same guy RB?

Snow

 

[Keb]

Isn't double ball shooting common practice in the Blue Jacket Match? :/

 

[roundball]

Same guy RB?
Snow

I wouldn't think so...Don seems to have all his parts, LOL.
It was only about 18-20 years ago when Don was planning a trip to Africa that he asked me if I had any spare shotgun primer trays he could have and I gave him a couple.
(the airlines required that each individual #11 primer be separated into its own storage hole and the shotgun primer tray design is perfect for that.)

 

[Rifleman1776]

If I recall correctly, this gentlemans story appeared in Muzzle Blasts back in1967-68? If he is the same individual he was Hollywood stuntman who kept loosing body parts. He shot lft handed aftr loosing his right eye only to switch Back after loosing his lft hand. Same guy RB?

Snow

Slow learner.

 

[Many Klatch]

Keb, the rules for the Blue Jacket match are very clearly single round ball only. If anyone is double balling they are cheating.

I have double balled targets when I was the last shooter in a relay and wanted to get it over and done with. The balls print one over another at 25 yards the top one at the aiming point and the bottom one slightly lower.

Many KLatch

 

[nkbj]

Worked with a guy that couldnt hit a deer with a flintlock if his life depended on it. Came up with the brilliant idea to put 120 gr. of BP in it and 4 patched balls on top. Seen a big doe and pulled the trigger. Blew out the touch hole, broke stock and he had a shoulder that was black and blue along with his arm and ribs. Said he didnt know what hit him. A couple of weeks later I got to see his weapon. Buldge in the barrel also. What an idiot. Bet he wont do that again. I know his wife was not very happy about it. New gun also.

RJ

Well, did he get the deer?

 

[skywarp]

The RN used to "double shot" their guns and carronnades for extra oomph up close.

Course, their guns used to blow up periodically, too...

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Double ball loads go way back in history, it was a common practice. To take .50 caliber as an example, two .490" balls will weigh just over 350 grains and would produce no more pressure or recoil than a single 350 grain conical bullet over the same powder charge. Muzzle energy would likewise be pretty similar to a conical bullet of the same weight but down range the two balls would loose velocity and energy as the same rate as a single ball. I haven't shot game with a double ball load but have tried a few on paper and one shot at 75 yards left two holes just one inch apart right on the point of aim. I would expect two balls impacting very close together and nearly simultaneously would deliver a lot more shock to an animal than would one conical projectile.

 

[Keb]

Keb, the rules for the Blue Jacket match are very clearly single round ball only. If anyone is double balling they are cheating.

Exactly. I happened to catch a well known fella doing that back at 96 ONWTPR. He denied it but it didn't do him any good. He was caught red handed. His target was thrown out. I didn't make a friend that day. I think he may have lost a few. :/

 

[M. De Land]

Well, you would have two projectiles but you would also have reduce velocity and energy because of the double weight. Not sure the additional wound so close to the first would be an advantage over having a single ball and more energy. MD

 

[roundball]

It might not be the situation you'd think...T/C's data charts show a single .440" max load listed around 2100 FPS with 1300 ME.
Their early data charts (below) which used to be published with these double balls loads still shows surprisingly high velocity and of course two balls deliver significantly more energy to the target than a single ball, creates a double wound channel, etc.

 

[dc7x64]

I shot the double ball method a month or so ago. Came back with my range report and posted. I think it turned into about 4 pages of replies. Follow Claude's link its all there...very interesting and controversial! More importantly from a safety aspect, you need to short start both patched balls and seat them as a single projectile. I think we discussed the possibility of an air pocket that could occur between the two patched balls that can/may cause the second ball not to seat firmly causing the second ball to become an obstruction. I would not recommend more than two balls ever! You would be better off,if you wanted more, to load up the old smoothbore with some buckshot!

 

[Richard J.]

No he didnt get it. Missed at 45 yards. Deer ran to his friend that he was hunting with. Stuck out the barrel and shot it at about 4 inches while it was looking back. Didnt know he was behind the big beechnut tree. Said he had to move the barrel about two inches to line up with the head shot. Skinned the deer that night and no other holes in it.

RJ